Ah, crud, you’re right.
DPS BAD, SUPPORT AND TANK GUD. 
But seriously, I wish Soldier could be meta without him being overpowered…
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Zen doesn’t sacrafice healing when he doing damage as he can leace his orb on teammate. Ana yes. Zen no.
Yeah, I’m not of the opinion that Baptiste needs a nerf without seeing how the next patch and meta turns out(I’ve been playing him full disclosure) but I’m open-minded to the general conversation of power creep in general and Soldier being so bad.
I originally took this conversation to be about both of those but it quickly spiraled into “people want to nerf Baptiste!” and you cannot insert a nuanced opinion once people have made it into that.
Zen also cannot put out nearly as much healing as Bap/Ana can. I don’t like to get into the “well but he can’t always be doing damage because he has to heal” because that means we need to be giving Ana headshot damage on her rifle since she’s not going to be sniping most of the time. Then we need to unnerf Moira’s heals and give her a little more DPS since she can’t do both.
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If you want to kill stuff with support, then you they shouldn’t be able to heal so much.
And honestly, Soldier isn’t even that bad of a hero…
Not compared to Widow at least.
It feels really great that he can actually do something against 
Solider 76 has been power crept not by Baptists. But the Dps roster. Hanzo outdamages solider at every range. Widow and doom can one shot. Mei and reaper have been buffed to a point where they surpas solider. Mcree and Ashe deal more damage and have arguble better ults.
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Yeah, I’m in the same spot, actually. I want to see how this new tank patch affects the meta. If snipers are crazy again, I’m really hoping they find a way to nerf them appropriately so that heroes who don’t excel in massive burst, like Soldier, can have an optimal environment to thrive and be viable.
It’s awkward being both a support and DPS main lol. There are things about both sides that drive me nuts. Wanting a support to not be too DPS-heavy makes you a SaLtY DpS mAiN and wanting other DPS heroes not to single-handedly invalidate 90% of the roster also makes me a SaLTy SuPpOrT MaIn.
I can’t win. So I’ll just complain about them both lol
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Check the old topic (August '19). A lot of people made good arguments.
Its completely contrary back then.
It hurts soooooo bad. I’m the first to say that a lot of the GOATS centric DPS need to be outright reverted or toned down ASAP, Reaper, Mei, Doom are just in a stupid state. At the same time however I’m very wary of any overtuned support because they offer healing, something no other class can bring. So when you combine healing(a high amount of it as well) with a kit that is encroaching on a DPS(even if it’s one of the worst DPS) I think we should keep our eye on the situation.
I thought the recoil needed to be changed ASAP but I have no idea why they also lowered the falloff damage rate. I wouldn’t be surprised if they pull that back if he becomes ap roblem.
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Zen can out heal bap or Ana. But, zen has the best support ult in the game. If you play zen ult right you can out heal main healers like ana and Bap. His damage is better than both and his discord is on par with ana sleep dart and grenade.
Ana damage is at 70 already that three taps any dps. Moira can deal damage and heal at close to same amount time. You can switch between damage and healing with just a cllick of a button.
At this point I don’t even think you play healer.
Preaaaaach, literally on the same page. And I play as Mei and Reaper. It feels really cheesy, honestly, to play them. From a player perspective, I want them toned down. I want them viable, I want them to have their place, but not to be this rampant.
They’re actually why I will not play tank (Mei more than Reaper). Being chain frozen is incredibly infuriating. I’d rather die to Reaper. At least that’s fast lol.
I think you’re unfairly trying to compare heroes with entirely different kits, honestly.
If Zenyatta is outhealing Baptiste or Ana, they either suck or they’re being blocked most of the game. Even if Zenyatta has the best support ult, he shouldn’t be walking away with more healing.
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I don’t even know what you’re trying to argue at this point and suggest you go back and reread my posts for actual meaning or make a coherent post.
Yep, I like the state that they’re in but I think Reaper needs lifesteal toned down by maybe 10-15%. Mei I honestly don’t know what to do since her freezing through multiple people made her a lot more viable but it’s also the thing I hate the most about her.
I just wish they would rework Reaper. He sucks to play as and obviously if you are tank, he sucks to play against. And unlike Bastion or Sombra, people actually like him. Rofl.
Yeah, my go-to is either to hack him as Sombra or to go Pharah and focus him as best as I can so he at least has to restrict himself to using cover.
But, godddddd I will not play a tank especially if the enemy is running any combination of Reaper, Mei, or Doomfist. I’d rather swallow nails.
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I’d be fine with Baptiste not being able to do both at the same time. Maybe even reverting his healing count buff or lowering his healing to 55.
Baptiste is supposed to be able to deal good damage. It seems ridiculous to try and take that away from him.
His damage is only significant if that is all he is doing. If that is all he is doing, he gets no healing done.
A very specific thing that other people can do better. Most people would rather the ability to oneshot. It’s not a coincidence that people are always playing Widow, Hanzo and Doomfist.
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Imagine playing against Roadhog then. He straight up upgrades Reaper with CC and even more sustain.
You literally tried comparing Baptists healing and damage to zen and ana. Also you mentioned how zen and ana have to sacrifice healing or damage. When zen can cleary do both at same time.
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I hate Roadhog myself. Reaper is like story mode when it comes to countering him and Hog is like dark souls. Only my roll has no I-frames!
Yes, but not literally because you cannot compare any character in this game without nuance. It’s why people get upset when someone dares to bring up Baptiste having similar dps capability as soldier. I would have thought that people learned the lesson from Brig who statistically is nowhere near a DPS but she turned into a defacto DPS that was a better choice than most damage dealers at their role in comps that enabled it.
My worry is similar for Baptiste, not just for the DPS roster but also power creeping other supports. Both Ana and Zen are “DPS supports” but they both had an obvious balance drawback of Ana not being as dangerous and Zen not being able to put out as much healing output. Bap is basically saying to hell with your limitations to Ana, Zen and Soldier.
Again I’m not saying that he needs to be nerfed because of this but I don’t understand how people are getting in their feelings over even having a conversation about it.
I wasn’t even talking about nerf aspect because I don’t care if bap is nerfes.