Was getting lazy last night so to wind down I played a few rounds of Moira. It struck me a very simply fix for this character (amazing the easy value this kit has) is just to simply remove self-heal on Drain, and let Orb be her only means of self-heal.
If you think it’s just me, saw Samito pick her up and had basically the same reaction to the kit, you work 2x hard at least on other kits for the same output… not good for the game. Cutting down her ability to sustain would make her manage her resources including her own health more carefully since expending more resource pool value for self-healing would help temper her positioning.
It’s unfortunate that this is the direction that’s being suggested, I do feel like the self heal is sorta the least of her problems
As sceptical as i am towards samito, he does have the right to this sort of judgement i reckon tho she needs a bit more of an overhaul rather than just removing her self heal on drain
It was my suggestion not his btw. I only mentioned that anyone doubting that this kit hands a bit too much value out for effort is kidding themselves. Removing that ability to self-sustain without literally planning for it (something Brig has issues with as well) would maintain the design philosophy better of the kit being a resource management play.
Oh yeah, I’d take a rework over this, but this is the easiest most direct way to inject more skill in the kit. She has to consider her c/d on Orb and can’t launch a damage Orb and Drain with self-heal doing damage also. Major change in playstyle.
She’s not supposed to be a duelist. And we’ve run the numbers many times, she’s far better at survivability thanks to sustain. There is no “oh woe Moira” in reality. Not a single player of note, coach or commentator thinks this is a good design in the game. It only exists because they refuse to nerf hypermobility.
Because Ana takes actual effort to play, that’s pretty simple. I mean you can’t win this argument, even Samito at GM levels talks about how ridiculous the value for effort is on this kit even high up.
My point here is a slight change to self-healing would do wonders for the kit and it’s respectability without changing the fundamental playstyle too much.
Moira was designed to be the main healer’s tech switch for when you randomly got paired against a ridiculously good Tracer or Genji. Nobody wants to end up in a position where they feel helpless all game, so Moira gives anybody a fighting chance vs those two characters. Not happy with it? Get the devs to actually nerf those two and then we’ll talk.
Ok… so firstly you’re wanting to axe an entire mechanic. That’s not a “slight change”. Second, I see absolutely no mention of any sort of compensation buff for flat out removing 32.4% of her Damage Beam’s maximum output.
A bit of a tangent, would you say Pharah is countered by Moira in a closed environment? Like the indoor control maps etc
Not a brag, I find it relatively reliable when playing moira to pick off pharahs since she has quite forgiving accuracy, im just wondering if this extends further and if they’re actually counters to one another
like yall keep preaching “need effort to fairly match rewards”, yet moira’s gotten tons of nerfs, some made her skill floor higher like grasp hitbox reduction, and further suggest literal nerfs of straight up deleting some aspects of her kit, yet where the heck is the compensation? i.e. where the heck are the proportional “fairly matching rewards” for the increase in effort?
because very evidently moira’s one of the worst performing supports rn and for quite some time, so there HAS to be compensation from a balance standpoint AND from yall’s (those preaching for moira nerfs/“effort to fairly match rewards”) own logic.
I don’t think Moira is in need of a nerf at the moment. I could understand doing this alongside a possible decrease to orb cool down, but what she really needs is a rework to give more value for higher skilled players. I don’t think just nerfing her kit and telling players to get better is going to solve her problem at higher skill levels.
probably her nerfs over the years w/o compensation is blizzards lazy way to deal with the problem. reworks and complete overhauls like symmetra would have been ideal. maybe it would have meant more than one rework but a solution could have been made.
of course total reworks require more work and effort then tweaking flat damage/healing numbers.
Uhm… and we’re nerfing an underperforming hero for what?
At least list some long terms solutions and compensation buffs lol
Though it thematically fits her and her playstyle revolves around quick trades to regain the juice. She couldn’t do that if she had to throw a healing orb every time she has to make herself vulnerable
samito: oh its sunday, a new week! I’d better go back to the board!
samito swivels in his gaming chair to face a spinning wheel of supports that show one third for brig, moira and mercy each. There are lots of darts on the brig slice. He picks up another dart.
samito: Hmm… please dont be brig again. This is getting boring.
samito spins the wheel, and sits back in his chair to throw the dart. It lands on moira.
samito: YES! Time to whine! I can’t wait to throw on this hero again and then get my followers to mob hunt her into more nerfs!
Not a flat out nerf to the worst support in the game
I’m all for upping her skill floor but you’ve got to rework her alongside it to give her more power in return. Not just nerf the kit as it stands.
You may as well delete the hero at that point
We know she’s getting reworked for OW2 - to some degree. How much of a rework and what it looks like, we don’t yet know. Suppose we’ll just have to wait and see.
she was underperforming before and still is underperforming before your proposed nerfs.
—> from general balance perspective she will need compensation. and objectively, she’s not providing high value atm.
you’re trying to make her harder to play yet also reducing the value she can get which is contradicting your whole principle of “make her take effort for high value”.
where’s the “higher value” in what you’re proposing?
I wouldn’t say countered here, you may have killed them but Moira’s range is only 20m. Decent players of these heroes should be well out of her range, but I get some kills on them sometimes as well.
I have to disagree that she provides “too much value”, she is a low effort hero, but the only things she has going for her are Healing and Survivability. She has no utility and her damage is abysmal. She’s considered one of the worst supports at the moment, there’s no reason to just nerf her.
Once again, her healing is one of the only things she’s good for. I don’t play much comp, but in quick play I average 12.1k Heals per 10 minutes over 115 hours. If they did remover her self heal, she probably would need an orb cooldown reduction or a healing buff though, not because she currently under performs at healing, but she would need to swap to using her orb more selfishly instead of for her team.
i reckon tho she needs a bit more of an overhaul rather than just removing her self heal on drain
