Balance Discussion – Apr 2021 – PR & WR Charts

Cause win rate doesn’t matter when a pick rate is that high

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Win rate is a useless statistic when pick rate is high or low, it”s only really good with middle of the pack heroes.

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I’m afraid they can, because Brig+Ana seems to be a decent team alongside a Winston or whatever up in OWL. I’m sorry about your character being held hostage because of the less-than-one percent. :pensive:

You may think you aren’t providing bias and all you are doing is providing data, but you are literally only sorting by pick rate and not win rate. You aren’t providing a balanced view of the data and have clear bias with a narrative that pick rate is the only thing that matters. Using your own data, I have provided a sort using win rate which provides a much different narrative.

Rank Hero Winrate
1 Sombra 58.17%
2 Pharah 56.41%
3 Doomfist 56.29%
4 Zarya 56.20%
5 Symmetra 56.09%
6 Reinhardt 55.15%
7 Bastion 55.15%
8 Lucio 54.87%
9 Junkrat 54.76%
10 Mei 54.74%
11 Baptiste 54.61%
12 Soldier 76 54.52%
13 Ashe 54.33%
14 Zenyatta 54.21%
15 Orisa 53.78%
16 Tracer 53.50%
---- Average ----------
17 Echo 53.45%
18 Genji 53.28%
19 Ana 53.04%
20 Mercy 53.03%
21 Moira 52.79%
22 D.Va 52.54%
23 Mccree 52.47%
24 Sigma 52.47%
25 Widowmaker 52.30%
26 Winston 52.13%
27 Hanzo 52.04%
28 Wercking Ball 51.07%
29 Roadhog 51.07%
30 Brigitte 49.88%
31 Reaper 49.59%
32 Torbjorn 49.09%
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Pick and Winrate somehow combined is most important I think

I played Torb once in competitive ever and won, so I have 100% winrate on him for my profile :laughing:

As always, balance topics ignore the 95% of the players that are NOT at the rank indicated.

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Winrate is very much dependent on the pickrate, when a hero is barely played their winrate will fluctuate very easily, and they will usually be high or low, as they sample size is small, when heroes are being picked a lot, their pickrate will naturally come closer to 50% as they are being played so much, as I said there are things that make it not be that way, but by and large a hero which is more likely to be picked on both side will have a winrate that is much closer to 50%, so because winrate requires much more context the standard has become pickrate, but it is still important to look at both, but pickrate gives you a much clearly picture, as things that are stronger are what people will most likely pick more, with winrate it could come to a specific map or team comp that can counter something that has a good success rate but only in uncommon situations.

Both are important together, but pickrate shows a much clearer picture that is most of the time correct, and as such is the standard when it comes to Overwatch stats.

The balance is around the top tiers with consideration of the average player, it only makes sense to be talking about the top tier when discussing balance…

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But, but, McCree is totally p4p numbah 1 in gold, Fraudulent!

wierd how sombra has a high winrate, i stink at her so bad that i have like a 41 percent winrate in quickplay, like if that matters or anything :stuck_out_tongue:

Correct.

As an added note; generally good balance representation is having a win rating above or below 50% with slights as low as 48% or highs as high as 52% being in a fairly good balance level.

Because of pick rates being outliers, the numbers the skew and can give the wrong impression. Since we’re dealing with data that I assume to be at grandmaster level (so top 500); and the possibility that only represents 1/5th of the total grandmaster playerbase, the largest issues here tend to be the outliers win overly high win ratings.

Thus, Sombra is the biggest outlier and one of the more troubling characters in Overwatch. But we kinda already knew this; as EMP doesn’t really have any counterplay or defense against it.

Doomfist, Zarya, Pharah and Symmetra are the other outliers here. Teleporter is shown to be incredibly powerful utility to bypass a lot of defensive lines and disrupt formations. Doomfist trends well with Zarya, much like Reinhardt, and be just as lethal if not more so. Pharah likewise, a well-timed barrier with Zarya allows Barrage to clean up, and it becomes even more lethal with Nanoboost in conjunction. Or the usage of Immortality Field combined with Lucio’s Sound Barrier/Crossfade.

Given his extreme pick rating; I’d say that Reinhardt might also be an outlier, though his win rating isn’t quite there. This may just be some statistical noise that’s impacting his win rates - much like it would McCree - and I suspect he’s still borderline even after the patch changes to his bulk.

Despite the contrary, McCree isn’t showing dramatic win rates that his pick would allow, which may be the reason why Blizzard is reluctant to change him. If he were truly overpowering; he’d should show a much higher curve in comparison to Reinhardt (since similar pick rates). We know that Tanks tend to be borderline broken, individually, but even McCree - if he were that strong - should seen a stronger curve upward.

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Very nice chart. It’ll be interesting to see how it changes as the OWL season goes. Ladder picks normally start to reflect OWL within a few weeks. They’re playing mostly Winston/Zarya or Winston/D.VA. Almost always McCree and Tracer and Bap/Lucio or Ana/Brig.

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symmetra’s winrate is pretty good/ oops idk why i replied to your post my bad lol

The way that winrate is weighted.

Swapping to a hero halfway through a round lowers the weighting on the win in the winrate stat itself. Think of how old Sym had huge winrates because she was swapped off quickly, but reversed.

Mccree is an extremely common counterpick for a huge chunk of the roster so this occurs a lot for him. It’s why he’s always had a low winrate regardless of his balance state.

Robotwizard made a great post on overbuff stats (just dont necro it). The winrate section is probably a good read for anyone who doesn’t understand Mccrees winrate. His low winrate is to be expected and doesn’t disprove the overpowered claims at all. If anything his winrate jumping 3-4% since his buffs is actually a huge red flag.

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Whispers: Doooooo iiiiiit.

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Yes, GMs have a >50% winrate on average. But that should apply for all heroes. Unless you’re saying that GM Mccree players play against lower rank players more often than… Ashe players for example.

As a general rule, more pickrate = less winrate for the same “impact.” If you have a near 100% pickrate and extremely high winrate, then you’re extremely OP (stronger than the 100% pickrate would indicate). Conversely, if you have a high pickrate and low winrate… then maybe you’re doing slightly worse than the pickrate would indicate.

That’s possible for tanks due to the limited pool, and the fact that tanks define the meta. However, this rarely happens for dps. For example, when Mei’s pickrate skyrocketed - her winrate was never extremely high. When Genji was “OP,” his pickrate wasn’t extremely high. And neither was Tracer’s when she was the top dps.

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I’m a little late to the party, but where does this data come from?

overbuff most likely. its the only place where we can go for stats like those since blizzard doesnt provide us with anything similar. just top 500 leaderboards

bASTION and GeNgi has a hiGHER winRATE ThEiN McChree! McRee not brOken CONFiRMED111!!!111!

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There’s actually about 15-20 GM Junkrat one tricks/hard mains that probably up his pickrate

Aquamarine, ProlikeChro, Jacklz, Jaminhere, Blast, Traplock, Mystx, CODcode, Junksparrow, etc.

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I can assure GM Rats aren’t getting much, if any, value from spam. You see, up in GM, Junkrat players actually DO have to aim contrary to popular belief.

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