1. Tank is incompetent
1.A. Pushes too forward, over-extends, isn’t aware of where its supports are, doesn’t use walls, is dying way too much, has no clue where the life packs are, and doesn’t peel back.
1.B. Doesn’t know how to push at all, is defending our spawn point on attack, either waits for someone else to move forward or decides it’s gonna go a totally different way than everyone else and dies 1v5 on the point.
another 45% of the time…
2. DPS is incompetent
I think it’s mostly a lack of understanding of how to prioritize their kills. They’re just forever firing at a barrier with their two snipers and can’t figure out that the supports in their back are actually healing that tank when they finally break it down. Everyone is just like, firing from far away and expecting something to happen. I’m usually forced to go DPS moria to get into their back line and get things moving along.
The remaining 10% of the time is actually in a good quality match with other players at my skill level.
Its a backfiring effect of one tricking coupled with the fact that dps, while having the least impact ingame, also has eay too many choices available and thus much more learning curves.
You literally need a flanker, a hitscan, an offensive burst hero, a defensive space hero, a tank buster, then specific counters to certain heros.
Its not as simplified as Tanks with just dive, Shield, Brawler, or supports with Utility/Main Heals.
So I can give them that. Its the fact that most dps think its as easy and picking up any single hero and shooting with them which will fulfill their role. Which is so far from the truth it hurts the entire time.
My advice. Learn the roles first. Learn when and where your heros work. Because even in the pro scene pros are swapping heros to fulfill specific situations to change up the match.
The age of one tricking is dead along with 6v6. In 5v5 everyone’s contribution matters.
I strongly disagree and I’m a Kiriko main. I play mostly Kiriko, Bap, and Brig. I usually hover around a 50-60% win rate. Once you raise your mmr, you’ll probably get better teammates. Mine haven’t been THAT bad
45% of the time it’s the tank’s fault, 45% of the time it’s the DPS’ fault, 45% of the time it’s the supports’ fault, and 45% of the time I failed maths.
It usually is (at least) partially your fault. Nobody ever blames themselves, but in reality, you also probably made enough mistakes to lose the game.
Generally speaking, 20% of games aren’t really winnable. 20% of games aren’t really losable. You can determine the outcome of the match in 60% of games. That’s why you usually get 80%+ winrates in unranked to GM streams.
When it comes to support, the most common mistake is lack of pressure, poor use of utility, bad positioning or failing to save critical teammates. I’m almost certain one of the above is the reason why OP is losing their games.
At least with the support or tank role you know why you lost. With DPS your own stats seem to bear so little relation to the outcome of the match, it’s nuts
Clearly. I cannot win to save my life. I just had a game where I did double the damage of the next best DPS (on their team) and we got stomped. Obviously I am doing something so utterly wrong.
But whatever, it is just a game. I can be a trash can, but compared to my teammates, I am a golden trash can with spinning rims. Only the finest of garbage.
A big problem with the Damage-role is the inability to effectively dive into the enemy team because they won’t get Support (because Supports won’t follow them or aid them in anyway). And the secondary issue is that it is brutally difficult to get any damage done because of difficulty aiming relative the rest of the roster or that the Tank won’t create enough space to create or enable openings for this to happen.
Another issue is with more backline artillery Damage-role heroes which tend to be more numerous. Part of the reason why so many Damage-role heroes switch to these heroes because of Support inattentiveness and because it’s generally easier or safer to fire off without restraint; but more likely to see little effort because of Tank’s inability to open up opportunities.
With B, the issue is due to, again, negative reinforcement from Supports who aren’t willing to take risks to heal. A repeated pattern of this ends up happening and forcing Tanks to play more passively or safely because Supports just aren’t willing to heal while the target is taking damage or in combat.
With A, this is probably due to frequent reinforcement of attentive Supports or a passive enemy team that isn’t willing to make these types of punishments for aggression. Tanks tend to be overwhelming forces against passive play or unskilled teams and some Tanks also find themselves being the only one capable of putting significant hurt on the enemy. Others realize they need to open up the enemy team to let the rest of their team do the work in eliminating them, but are oftentimes unable to succeed because of Supports aren’t attentive enough or unwilling to follow through.
This reinforcement means that eventually the Tanks will transition to B, and it just becomes a vicious cycle. Supports are basically the biggest issue here and set the pacing (or lack of it) for these games.
In higher skilled games these issues don’t happen as the game in generally more cohesive towards team play. Highly skilled players don’t have issues in dealing this kind of behavior as eliminations tend to lead to the highest value and they’re skilled enough in making sure they get those kills.
You’re only as strongest as your weakest member of the team. Or your chain is only as strong as your weakest link.
Sorta. Damage-role can have an impact when they get eliminations, and they are supposed to be specialized in doing that. But they do have a higher learning curve and a more difficult time because they’re so dependent on the rest of their team to provide some cushioning in that learning.
They still have some of the strongest ultimates in the game; even if they may not be that impactful or very easy to defend against.
It has been mentioned and observed multiple times that playing Support is one of the easiest roles in the game and one of the easiest to make some kind of impact towards winning the games. There’s a limit, but for a bulk of the games and their skill levels, playing Support up until the very top, is more likely to win your games by being pro-active and healing your team, than it is to do anything else.
Eliminations are the only way you’re going to see any impact to the game. If you can’t get at least 10 final blows per game, you need to practice.
Damage doesn’t mean much when everyone can do it. It’s question of economics here; damage is as common as dirt, so its value is pretty low.
But if you can get eliminations that’ll help you and your team. It’s particularly useful to get as many eliminations as you can in a single life or with minimal downtime (that is, you don’t spend so much time looking for a health pack after a kill).
As a plat support player, this post is very based. However I’ve realised over time it’s not teammates fault at all… It’s the god awful matchmaking so feeling like you’re being held back by teammates, imo at least, is a lot more real than a lot of the community quickly jump to label as “skill issues”. You can outheal every other support in the lobby, dmg boost the right targets to get picks, cleanse everything, land phat nades etc. But if the enemy team still win coz tank went in way too far and dps died on flanks, well who are we as supports supposed to support? A bad player or another bad player. Competitive integrity and realistic skill placement is ruined by the win = up, lose = down. There needs to be individual skill tracking that increases/decreases sr/mmr, and not just weather you win or lose, completely out of our hands until blizzard fixes it unfortunately.
Support main here, this is a fat skill issue. If your team sucks every game (assuming this is comp and not qp, because if it is then yeah this is true) it’s because you also suck every game. In qp you’re often forced to carry to maintain 50/50 winrate, but in competitive there’s not much of a bias, and if you’re playing consistently, you
(and your “trash” team) are exactly where you belong.
Is this comp or quickplay? In quickplay challenges force people to play tank. Are you sure it’s not the challenges that are the problem! ?
Stop being rude. I’m trying to take you seriously but if you can’t be civil I won’t bother.
Yes. Valid. Happens so much. I just want to practice Lifeweaver but I have to go Moira to make sure things get done. Then you get called a ‘dps Moira’ even though you have the most healing on either team.
You NEVER get blamed for the victory.
How do you define a hood quality match? I’m not sure what to make of this statement without quantifiers.
You had some good points but you presented them aggressively and as such you will get more drama then debate. Not sure what you felt you had to gain by doing that.
You are right. I am main support and I feel you. But hear me out. If u have more knowledge of the game, why don’t use coms to help your team? You don’t even have to go in vc. You can help them in text chat.
Trust me. If you tell a tank: “please, stay with us” in 70% of the times they will listen.
If u tell your dps: “please, focus on the supports”, în 90% of the time they will try to do that. They won’t manage to kill them every time, unfortunately, in low ranks the aim is not that good. But you will see a difference.
Talk to your team. Ask them politely to wait for each other. To go together. To focus on one player at a time. And so on. There is so much u can do and it’s a must mostly when u see that u are more experienced than your team.
As a support, in low ranks u have to choose. If the first fight goes well and u see that your dps and tank are doing good, u support. If u see that your dps and tank are good aimers but lack position, u just heal and heal and heal. If your team lacks aim and position, u gotta help by doing more dmg. In the meantime, u communicate. Use pings, use vc, use text. Talk politely, don’t be rude. Because mindset is soooo important. U can’t learn your dps to aim in a game. But u can guide them into positioning and strategy kills. And boost their confidence enough so they will focus better.
Every time I tell my dps that I trust them, even if they are bad, their game improves a lot. They trust me, they stay with me, we start being a team and the game is much better. We don’t always win, but at least those loses are not ending in frustration.
I hate when people look at stats and say: “look, I have more dmg than you”.
Sure mate. If u have 5k dmg and only 2 kills it means you feed them ults. But if u have 1k dmg and 5 kills, it means u did your job as intended.
People need to learn that not the dmg is the factor that shows skill, but the amount of objective kills. U can chase the tank as much as you want. You can even kill him, why not? But if that doesn’t help you take the objective, you just chased the wrong guy and ruined the game.
I wish stats would be hiden during the game. The only stats that matter is the ult charge, so you can use the ults properly. The other stats are irrelevant and you can see them after the game.
Another reason why I want stats to be hidden during the game is the impact they have on players. Stats just rise the toxicity. A player with good stats would believe they did good and start sabotaging unintentionally. Same goes with players with low stats who will start to grind stats so they won’t be the last. At the end, everything turns into the battle of stats. Players forget there is an objective. Or that they are in a team-based game.
Sounds like you don’t like reflecting on your own gameplay. One should, even if it was a ‘bad’ match, you can learn a lot.
If you post a replay code, someone could help you climb. That takes as much effort as your post, but you’ll improve rather than playing the blame game, which doesn’t really help you, besides making you feel better about yourself. Anyone can climb, in any rank, any meta, any point in OW2.
Maybe try experiment with your gameplay? Post a replay code and ask for help nicely? Start comming nicely? If you can’t reach the rank where competent teammates exist, you don’t deserve them.
so feeling like you’re being held back by teammates, imo at least, is a lot more real than a lot of the community quickly jump to label as “skill issues”. You can outheal every other support in the lobby, dmg boost the right targets to get picks, cleanse everything, land phat nades etc. But if the enemy team still win coz tank went in way too far and dps died on flanks, well who are we as supports supposed to support? A bad player or another bad player. Competitive integrity and realistic skill placement is ruined by the win = up, lose = down. There needs to be individual skill tracking that increases/decreases sr/mmr, and not just weather you win or lose, completely out of our hands until blizzard fixes it unfortunately.