D.Va is a MUST pick in OWL… yet sucks on ladder? And we’re going to ignore that?
LOLWUT, nearly every match in OWL right now is double shield or dive, with deathball on some maps like Lijiang. Did you watch the May Melee?
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If we are having this discussion I would like Hog to be buffed as he dosent see any OWL play and some may say he sees a lot of play in comp, well we all know they are just dps players and they do more harm than good. So as a dps player who plays hog a lot I would like some buffs cause my hero is bad
sombra doesnt suck on ladder, shes just a hard hero to play correctly, if the sombra isnt working, it might just be that the player controlling her isnt working
This might help her a lot, but she probably wouldn’t rise in pickrate instantly. She would’ve gotten like 0.3-0.5 % max. Nothing more special, she still would be in place in which she is right now in terms of pickrate. She’s just heavily coordination oriented hero. Sombra is fine where she is. She just doesn’t have carry potential same, as widow or hanzo have. None buffs are required to improve anything. It’s not really that hard to get value from her on ladder, just use vc. Most people around diamond use it already, so there should be no problem. And in lower ranks, she will be useless, unless you give her insane buff damage or something.
Get better at the game - or stop one-tricking.
ARE WE NOT GOING TO MENTION THAT OWL IS RUINING
I agree. OWL is the worst thing to happen to Overwatch and the esports scene should have been allowed to develop naturally after the game had matured.
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Ah yes, another “Sombra is OP! Her players just don’t know how to use her!!” reply. We haven’t all heard this for 3 years straight, while she’s been the worst hero on ladder even up to GM constantly.
Try again…
And I’m perfectly fine with that. I DON’T want Sombra to be meta, or to have some huge pickrate, I just want her to be viewed as a viable option so people will stop throwing tantrums when I select her.
I’d love it if her WR wasn’t constantly 6-10% lower then the next lowest character, throughout the majority of ladder as well.
Hard disagree.
Again, she has consistently maintained the lowest WR in GM, despite also having an extremely small pickrate. It’s not a “just use vc! lol” issue, it’s a ‘Sombra has serious downsides that overcompensate for her strengths, and she’s seriously outclassed by the bulk of her competition’ issue.
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And I’m perfectly fine with that. I DON’T want Sombra to be meta, or to have some huge pickrate, I just want her to be viewed as a viable option so people will stop throwing tantrums when I select her.
You have to remember that overbuffing sombra might result in her pickrate to rise not in ladder but in owl. And last time she was played in owl, she got smashed to the ground with nerfs. Not saying they weren’t necessary but you get the point. Also i dont remember anyone saying any offensive crap about picking sombra, since 2018, and i was gold back then. She already is a viable option, but she is usually played by casuals who dont know how to execute value out of her kit. Therefore her winrate is bad. I really would appreciate reverting emp cast time nerf, or reverting stealth speed, but outside these, i think its best to leave Sombra where she is.
I would really listen what are they, because i really dont find any right now except funny damage
They weren’t necessary or justified. She had a 42% WR in OWL during Goats leading up to the nerfs, she saw very little play before Goats took over, and she is the only character who’s Goats nerfs haven’t been reverted.
So obviously I’m very aware how quick the devs are to pull the rug out from under Sombra the split second she finds a niche she’s remotely viable in.
That’s why I suggest buffs that will help on ladder, especially low-mid tiers, without strengthening her at the top 1%.
You must not play her much. I have 1k hours on her and have heard someone complain before the spawn doors drop literally hundreds of times over the years. People start whining in spawn, you are blamed the second a push fails, and people have thrown matches until I swapped, even in QP.
Ah yes, the always popular “Sombra is fiiiiiiine, her players just don’t know how to use her!” That’s been the go to dismissal for 3 years, it’s getting old.
You seriously don’t see any downsides to Sombra’s kit?
Seriously?
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I have 400 hours on her. 300 in competetive, around 120 above 3k sr. Not a single Sombra whiner since i climbed out of gold.
For me she’s fine, and i hoped to hear why she isn’t from your perspective. But only thing you said, was to give her callouts in game, or reduce TL cd. And yes, i seriously dont see any downsides. For the powerful kit she was given, i would only see reverting some of her old nerfs to make her more viable. Everything else is balanced good, for me at least. I still want to know why it isn’t balanced in your opinion.
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y’all really need to stop paying attention to global winrates. they arent as indicative of a problem as you think. especially for a high skill hero that isnt well understood by people
shadow, if people are trashing you for your pick, analyze the situation yourself and see if YOU think its working with what you have and what youre against. as a sombra you see the battle from a very different perspective than anyone, YOU know best if its working or not. not your team. that doesnt mean be stubborn and refuse to swap, it means you make the call, not them. their opinion can be wrong
there are skilled sombras kicking some serious butt right now, in owl and on ladder. learn from them, if you think youve peaked, send in a VOD and we can show you what else can be worked on
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You’re fortunate then.
…but you’re also rocking a 44% WR on her despite your solid accuracy, crit percentage, solo kills, damage per 10, elims per 10, and hack numbers.
If you were putting up similar above average numbers on most other DPS, you’d likely be rocking a significantly higher WR.
Picking Sombra is holding you back, not vice versa.
Too much downtime, too loud, too easy to deny value with basic awareness and trash damage, very low midfight presence, no burst damage, no self sustain or damage mitigation without burning your most important cooldown and likely leaving the fight, only midrange with 70% ranged damage penalty, only 1 source of potential damage, damage output is hit harder by armor then anyone else in game.
I’m not suggesting all of them are unnecessary or they should eliminate most of them, but it’s way too many.
Literally everything Sombra can do has a significant “…but…” attached to it, except EMP…which was still heavily nerfed from it’s previous state where she was the worst character in game.
Sombra has a 0.49% PR across the ladder, that is terrible and firmly places her in “niche” category at best. Niche characters have crazy inflated win rates due to rarely being mirrored, and usually only being used when the map/comp/opponents’ choices give them a serious advantage.
Despite this, Sombra rocks a bottom tier winrate.
Duuude. I’m not talking about midway through a match, or after a whiffed EMP, or as we clearly need to make some swaps, I’ve heard toxicity at least once a session for 3 years at the hero select screen. I’m talking before the spawn doors open.
Sure, people go on streaks and clutch out huge plays on everyone, and Sombra is no exception… but it is the exception, not the rule. The rule is Sombra has performed worse on ladder, for nearly 3 years straight, then any other hero.
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I do not feel like this. Yes my winrate is garbage right now, but so it is on every other dps i play. I just suffered colossal lose streak recently, and i dont feel like it was Sombra’s fault. I just started getting really bad non cooperative teammates, and after 2 or 3 games like this, i kept playing. Even though i got good mates, i was so nervous about this, i lost my focus and went mad into every of these games. I had to take a break from this game since i dropped almost 300 sr. I believe i will come back stronger, and climb up my way back to masters, not necessarily with Sombra tho. I want to try other heroes like Soldier or Tracer. Last season i got 59% winrate on Sombra with 40+ hours played, and managed to get to t10 Sombras on overbuff (where i presume you checked my stats), so it clearly is not Sombra that holds me back, its just my stupid attitude to a competetive game.
Let’s be honest, you dont want to shoot as Sombra on distance that grants you this penalty, other heroes than d.va, ball or hog
I agree 100%, reverting armor nerf was probably the worst that could’ve happened to Sombra. Simple Brig in enemy denies like 60+ % of her possible value. Get it back to 3 instead of 5 and Sombra is getting so much better like that.
I wouldn’t say she has any of those things exaggerated in terms of weakness. Downtimes are long enough to prevent her from being op, but short enough to keep her active for more than 75% of the time when played well. Loudness is also fair imo since her cloak voiceline is the same distance as her hack and EMP are. About denying value, i have never expierienced something like this happening constantly in a match even in mid masters, so i was either lucky to get garbo enemies or you’re unlucky with getting good ones.
Yes, but its ok with me, she’s still an assassin, she is meant to kill isolated targets and disrupt enemies coordination, not spam burst damage into choke point or something. I mean if you want to finish someone off you still have melee. It ain’t much, but its still something that can help you secure that kill.
leaving the fight is unlikely if you placed your translocator correctly, on a high ground near it, Usually enemy team will be reluctant to spend resources on finding it so its free real estate. Many heroes are even without option to mitigate damage at all, so let’s be happy we have best escape ability in the game.
I dont see any way of giving her second without sacrificing one of her abilities, maybe except giving her secondary weapon. But i dont think its a solution we’re looking forward to.
Now i see, and i think i was too blind to see them because i never troubled myself with thinking about them.
For me it will be the best to Revert EMP and Stealth speed nerfs. Increase her damage to 8.5 per bullet, and maybe nerf armor back to where it was after major nerf. Increase EMP cost by 10-15% as a compensation nerfs, so she wont feel too oppressive with instantaneous ultimate that charges up quicker with increased damage. I would certainly love to see changes like these on experimental, just to see how she would’ve changed. It might be a little bit too oppresive, but we can go a little bit crazy, thats why experimentals were created.
If you have other ideas Shadow, i would also like to hear them out
I wish you the best. Wasn’t trying to be insulting pointing out the WR, it just seemed pertinent. I truly hope you come back with a vengeance on her, I’m thrilled when Sombras can put in work.
Depends on the enemy’s comp, but occasionally sure. Near high ground gets dicey if they have a Winston, Ball, Pharah, Echo, Genji, Junk, ect.
Posted this in another thread asking for proposed Sombra changes (beware incoming novel)…
…basically, I REALLY miss old Translocator and -3 armor.
Back then 0.5 second was a typo
Actual numbers were 0.2, and 0.35 after nerf
I like this Translocator right now, only thing that hurts that if you throw it badly, then you have to suffer 6 second cooldown instead of 2. I would change that upon cancellation, cooldown is reduced by half
I came, im fresh after my rank up game, got some sick Sombra plays this evening, like 3 emps in less than 3 minutes.
Currently, while Sombra is severely underperforming, she’s the only hero in the game where you really wouldn’t care whether you win or lose because you would have had fun either way. You can spend an entire week on a losing streak, and still wouldn’t pop a vein like you would the other heroes.
She’s fun, she’s fine.
It wasn’t really a typo. Back then yes EMP came out in like .2s, but Sombra was locked in the animation for .5s. Now it’s EMP comes out in .5s and she’s locked for .8s.
I played an aggressive Sombra. TL was held far more often then on the ground, I’d estimate a full 2/3rds of my TLs used never touched the ground. I’d survey the upcoming fight and chuck TL somewhere it would be safe for 3-5s, hack then dump a mag and reposition without leaving the fight, forcing the enemy to keep focus behind them for far longer and letting our frontline run through theirs.
Now rollouts are slower. Drop hacks are FAR more suicidal. “Pocket TL” isn’t an option, as holding TL is shooting yourself in the foot, canceled bait TLs are much less viable as it is now a 6s wait vs 2s, and EMPs are far too often a one way trip.
I get for some play styles it could possibly be better, I just don’t see how, and it was a rather huge nerf for mine.
New TL change effects far more then just missthrows, that’s probably the least of my issues with it.
Yup, and here’s why I can’t quit her. Sombra is easily the most fun character to me. Even when getting steamrolled, I’ll go backcap or jump on that smurf Widow’s head.
Jeff have said multiple times its balanced around GM whole keeping OWL in mind. Not the other way around.
Also, maybe you’re just wrong about hero balance? Maybe you just suck at those two heros and thats why you think their underpowered. Like do you play at a GM level? Do you actually know what those games are like.
Hun, OWL ruined the whole game
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Generally, the Owl ruins the game, not just these heroes. As long as money and marketing are getting in the way the game will never be balanced. It will be balanced around that specific part (the OWL). They don’t care for the rest… so since players from OWL don’t play heroes like Sombra. Bastion… and such things… they will nerf have blizzard attention.
That is why I prefer the game to “die” (by canceling the OWL), in order to live… cause the same thing happened with HotS and the game is more alive and balanced than ever. When a company cant handle the money from the e-sport scene and becomes greedy, it ends up ruining the game for the rest of the community when only 10% of it is benefitted (the OWL and the Top 500 players).
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