I’m not sure interviews they did almost 3 years ago reflects their opinions today.
Setting up a position I didn’t state and attacking it isn’t a strawman?
News to me.
The irony is that in your very first post, the context was clearly about OP. That is, end of game scores.
The flip-flopping is self-evident. Does a scoreboard have context (even if “not enough”) , or does it not?
It can’t be both.
Never did that. I was having a conversation with someone who was talking about a mid match scoreboard. You joined that conversation and ASSUMED we were talking about an end of game one.
Once you discovered this you then proceed to blame ME for not knowing you are talking about the main OP then proceed to accuse me of flip flopping. Nope.
So let me make my position CRYSTAL clear for you.
First we will talk about the OP.
End of game scoreboards are irrelevant data as it does not have context. When I am talking about context I am not just talking about the general map, hero’s and players. I am talking about the decisions and actions of those players during the match that effect the outcome.
Stats do not show context. They show end results only.
Maps, players, and hero’s are to general in context to provide enough information even with data to determine what ACTUALLY happened.
@ the idea of an end of the match scoreboard.
Same problem. The statistics do not provide context and the maps, hero’s and players that create the GENERAL circumstances are not SPECIFIC enough to tell you WHY certain things happened.
This has not changed. I have stuck to this from the start. Claim I flip flop all you want if that makes you feel better.
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I quote: “Why? Because it still does not provide enough context for you to properly interpret the data”
Yup, its vague.
Knowing the hero’s, the map/mode, and etc does not actually tell you why your rein is having trouble keeping his shield up. It does not tell you why your support is dying. It does not tell you why your dps is underperforming.
It is to vague. Not hard to get.
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Since so many people are against a live scoreboard an in depth post game board with stats and graphs would be still nice, just to be able to analyze the overall performance for each player. It could also include how each player performed compared to themselves and the average. Stats and graphs are fun! 
Ok.
So we agree that scoreboards do have context.
Maybe not to the level you think is necessary, but it has some.
Now that we’re agreed on that: Let’s go over one example you provided.
Where McCree hangs back to counter an aggressive Tracer, to protect the backline.
His stats would be low. But if he’s countering, wouldn’t the Tracer’s stat also be affected?
No, we don’t.
Scoreboards are stats.
The only example of context you provided me with is the vague map/mode/hero inforomation WE ALREADY have in game.
That context is not specific enough to establish the nature of the fight and why you are getting the results you are getting.
We’re not agreed on that.
Perhaps. But without knowing the McCree is in fact watching the backline it still lacks context. The tracer could just as easily be a bad shot, have poor management of her cooldowns, have poor timing and feeding the enemy and all sorts of other things unrelated to that mccree.
Same as that McCree could easily just be a bad shot, could be getting dived by a Winston and/or D.va and dying before getting anything meaningful.
The only reason in this instance YOU (specifically you) know that mccree is getting value(despite his stats being low) is because I TOLD you by creating the context through describing the moment to moment decisions he made.
You’ve inadvertently proven my point.
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Map and players are context. Some maps are terrible for some heroes, reasonable for others, and fantastic for a select few.
Also, if the Tracer is a bad shot that is reflected in the weapon accuracy. That is one of the easiest stats to interpret.
Vague.
Despite that many players overcome those weakness’s (or the strength of those with the advantage) and still succeed. Where as others who are supposed to have the advantage lose.
Which means, you are not getting the picture you need to accurately quantify what happened.
~sigh~ Perhaps her accuracy is down because she keeps getting booped away or her target keeps getting booped away by a teammate? Perhaps her accuracy is down because the burst shots from her hanzo teammate are killing her targets before she shoots more then half the time?
Bad accuracy does not directly corelate nor solely corelate to bad aim. The circumstances surrounding what is happening when she is shooting are needed to determine why she is “missing”.
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Vague does not mean non-existent.
If a Tracer has terrible accuracy because Hanzo one-shots, that’s reflected on Hanzo’s final kill count.
If a Tracer has terrible accuracy because of boops, that’s reflected by Lucio boops (how do you think env. kills are tracked?)
More importantky: If both a hero and it’s counter have low stats, they can be discounted. Terrible or not, or they are evenly matched.
Now rinse and repeat with the remaining five.
But if one is doing well and the other isn’t? That’s reflected in the stats. That a huge hint.
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Agreed. However, in this case it means insufficient. It lacks SUFFICIENT context to determine the circumstances and reasons that create the results.
But without context you have no way of knowing she is shooting the same target as him and missing because they are dead just as she pulls the trigger.
But without context you don’t know he is booping the targets she is shooting (or booping her if he is on the enemy team).
No, because now you are assuming they are fighting each other instead of knowing. Which may not be the case. No context, so you cannot assume anything.
No, because this game is not about 1v1’s. Its about the full team dynamic with everyone effecting everyone else.
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What I’m saying is that you’re missing the forest for the trees.
There’s a very sensible way of playing this game: Am I out playing my counterpart? Am I out playing my counter?
Am I doing my part should I just switch?
If I play Ana and I die constantly and die more than the other team’s healer, then It really doesn’t matter why I’m dying. The stats that show the high number of deaths shows I should have done something.
Communicate for peels? Be more aware? Swap to a different healer? Replays would provide clarity on the options, but a scoreboard shows what needed to be fixed.
There’s rarely one right answer
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Wrong. The entire reason you may be dying as Ana is your team is not peeling for you. Which would still be a problem regardless of what main healer you chose.
Your stats would lie to you and convince you otherwise. A replay would not.
That is the entire point. Stats are irrelevant on their own because they do not provide context.
Replays provide context and as a result the stats are useless because it becomes quite clear why you (or your team) were struggling in the first place because it is right there in front of you. Plain as day.
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IT’S TIME TO STOP!
But it doesn’t. I main Ana, so I know this all too well.
Whether the team peels for me or not, my high number of deaths is a problem. If a team member fail conistently to peel for me, yes it’s “their fault”.
And in using replay, you may feel justified in blaming your Lucio (the main peeler). This breeds more toxicity than a scoreboard. All caught on replay.
But I can’t force them to peel. What I can do is swap.
Maybe reposition. Maybe use scoped shots as little as possible.
The end goal remains the same.
Lol, fine. 20 characters.
Listen, we’ll continue this conversation tommorow. Need to sleep a little before work. Putting this on pause for now.
tbh this would be a bad idea
yes a score board would be cool but it would be useless and create more toxicity for example
a score board would mostly show stats like K/D, Damage to enemy team, blocking, and healing (most likely because those the most important stats
now if your team is losing and some one looks at the score board then they start blame the weakest link and cause the game to be even more worse
Dude how are you dismissing your own gameplay and basic game logic ?
“Omg im thirsty but … i dont have the context why, i need to think about what happened to me during the WHOLE DAY to come to a conclussion”
Really? Once you identify the problem, which is what the scoreboards are ALSO for, you can fix it. Then you watch the replay later for the whole 100% context.
Drink water. Next time drink water more frecuently to prevent that or dont drink alcohol because it dehidrates you. Simple.
But you do. Widow doesnt swift strike and kill people with melee damage. She doesnt shield up and charge people : If your BACK line is dying because of widow you DO know why.
“Guys deny angles and be aware of the widow, tanks, please call where she is so we can position appropiately, can anyone go Rein?”
How.are.you.still.denying.this?
We need BOTH dude, to have 100% of the tools we need. Right now you are saying “we dont need 50%, either we have 100% or none”.
Cant you see how POINTLESS is the “point” you are trying to make?
Cant you see that EVERYONE here can see that your only argument comes from “I fear its going to be used for toxicity” and “people will misinterpret them” , which can happen with any tool? (including replays).