They’ve reworked a few maps now and I still don’t like any of them.
Colloseo was the only one I thought major difference to the fun of the map.
Dorado did make some difference, but it still suffers from the same problems, although not as pronounced as before.
Junkertown made a small difference to first point, but it’s still widow most games and it only made a difference once you get into the middle channel. Other than that the map is still widow-ville like it was before.
Havana made no difference to the enjoyment of the map. It’s still a widow mirror every game.
Numbani made a difference for the high-ground on 1st but not a lot for the overall fun of the map, and moving the 1st attacker spawn seems to have caused more spawn camping rather than less. It still suffers from a terrible 2nd point where the cart can pretty much go for free depending on the timing of the first fight, or attackers get locked in 2nd spawn.
Now they’re going to rework more maps and the Clash mode. Are they just going to leave a trail of failed reworks behind? No iteration on Havana or Numbani? Rework doesn’t help, move on to next map, don’t try to make it better?
It depends I guess? I don’t think any of the reworked maps are truly “fixed,” and issue-less now. They all still kinda have the issue they started with, but the issue is less front and center which definitely helps them be less tedious to play imo. Collosseo is still like 60% one long hallway, but the part that isn’t is far less awkward to play around and with, if that was the goal they succeeded.
As far as Havana and Numbani go they might need time to see if the changes don’t fix the issue enough. If Numbani’s big problem to them was 1st point and wow 1st is playing more like the devs expect/want then the goal was met there is nothing to do. If it still doesn’t pass the sniff test they’ll probably throw it back in the pool of reworks.
They could also be prioritizing maps with a high rate of leavers, thus the shift to Clash maps. People don’t want to play them, maybe if the devs tweak things they will, less leavers and less cancelled matches are only good so, arm’s twisted gotta fix Clash since it has more negativity then Havana or Numbani. (Don’t take that as fact, this is all just conjecture)
I wouldn’t be surprised to see some maps land a rework a few times, especially if the map is like Paris or HLC and just generally regarded as a pain to play.
I dislike every rework apart from circuit and havana.
Numbani especially is just a failure and made attacking harder than it used to be, while dorado reworks didn’t help anyone.
The only good thing about the dorado changes is the elevator to get on the roof at the very beginning.
Havana and circuit are the only ones that are relatively helpful as a whole and not an active hinderance to either team.
How? Widow is still a must-pick on both those maps, and it made little difference to her effectiveness. The whole point of the reworks was to make snipers less effective, and for that they failed.
I avoided both maps then gave them a try after they were reworked, but now I skip both again. Watching streamers, none of them like Havana.
I couldn’t disagree more with this entire post. Neither of CR or Havana’s reworks did anything to address the bulk of their issues. CR’s changes in particular are so bizarre. Like the random new flank routes they added to the first and second points. Who are those for??
Meanwhile Numbani feels ways better to play for both sides and Dorado, while still not perfect, is also definitely a big improvement. I genuinely don’t understand how you could come to any of these conclusions.
It was easier to get out of a spawn camp in the last iteration of numbani. Many people held too forwards and you could sneak past the enemy team on the right. Left if they held the main.
The defending team has the upper hand in spawncamping now.
Only the elevator at the start is an improvement. The middle staircase is too straight forward and it’s existence has made long attacker flanks deadlier to attempt since the enemy team actually knows the staircase exists.
Nothing improved about the tunnel flank. It was changed just for giggles because no one still uses it and all it did was just removing 5 meters.
The healthpack on the right being removed has killed me more than a few times as i attempt to run back to spawn and can’t duck in to heal.
The bilboard at the second point offers nothing. The enemy widow just has cover to hide behind now, making the widow issue worse.
I played the maps and found issues with how they flow. Some changes are actively useless, like the tunnel changes at dorado. And last point highground access at numbani. You could easily hop up the grassy bits that they replaced with a staircase to get up. And some do nothing at all.
What they did to numbani, is the same as removing half of hollywood’s attacker hill and removing the healthpacks from the cafe. While deleting the hotel on the right.
Maps have been reworked mostly to excuse Widowmaker existing as she is, but none of those reworks will ever make up for the fact that a Widow can just hold an entire map hostage on her own.
Adding little covers here and there is just putting a bandaid on a broken bone.
EDIT: those maps reworks also tend to be big Tracer buffs because they reduce her weakness of no vertical mobility. Once again the game is reduced to Tracer vs Widow.
Some of the map reworks are fine. Dorado 2nd in particular feels a lot more fair for attackers.
Others like Havana and Circuit don’t really feel much better than they did before. The changes to Circuit in particular aren’t very helpful, since all they really did was add flank routes in weird locations that require you to pass through the same open spaces to get to them anyways. So nobody uses them.
Dorado:
+1st point elevator
+1st point Left flank shorter
+2nd point stairwell to hi-ground
Havanna:
-1st point banner and hi-ground on spawn didn’t do anything
-1stpoint more reachable hi-ground around cap, but I still don’t see many people use it. Should be a stairwell through that building prolly
CR:
-1st point defense now has another room for widow cover
+more attacking cover added around the bend of 2ndpoint
Collosseo:
+removed giant windows
Numbani:
+1stpoint hi-ground
+2nd point spawn
Though they’re mostly +'s, it still doesn’t feel like a significant change.
Dorado - most improved. Good try Blizz
CR and Havanna - didn’t solve the widow problem
They also added an extra item of cover in front of spawn, and they opened up the area around the 1st cap to provide more cover, although I rarely see anyone use it.
Blizzard delete Numbani charge for Reinhardt. I train this move and they just delete this
traffic light what i use for this. It’s such a shame when you spent time learning this skill and they just removed the opportunity to implement it.
If you mean the opening up to the left on the “fort” I can understand but I haven´t come across many players sneaking around the right door (left door if you coming out of the spawn room).
Thing is I don’t see it as a question of “were they fixed”
I think they had tried to reduce some advantages, or given some alternative routing options
But that doesn’t mean that some advantages shouldn’t exist….i think the game SHOULD provide areas that require different approaches or advantages for certain characters…because that’s what makes it so that hero selection matters
Map design is one of those things that can break monotonous metas…or encourage others….that is a good thing to me
If all the maps were the same, then we would only ever play the same game ALL the time
I´m in the same boat as you! Let the the maps create the meta but at the same time I want all heroes to be working on all maps to lesser or greater degree… Escort and KOTH should have harder map metas where you should to a high likelihood need to change the comp around…