I am referring the the post linked below.
So after Kayjii made the DPS kiriko I have now seen my first copycats: GMs DPS’ing on Kiriko in lower levels.
With how easy it is to land shots with Kiriko, mainly because of the size of her projectiles (=basketballs), her tiny hitbox and her extremely easy escape, she is a very efficient DPS.
What? First time I hear that
Huh?
The thread I refer to has 237 comments as of writing. Is that new to you?
I hope I don’t have to explain why Kiriko’s shots are easy to land.
Depends
At distance they’re very hard to land
Close encounters they’re very easy to land
I hope u explain. Since my hope is that i get good at those shots.
Please do.
“t500 dps play hero in low ranks and they stomped everyone!!! kiriko op and ez”
???
a t500 could battle-mercy gold players to death… does that mean her pistol is op??? or are they in the wrong rank…?
Her projectiles are on the smaller end of the scale, my dude. Plus they have a decent travel time at distance.
http s://i.imgur.com/aYFJqWD.png
http s://workshop.codes/wiki/articles/projectile-size-of-all-weapons-and-abilities
Bro, a gold support can dps in gold lobbies and do well. What exactly are you talking about bere. Am I supposed to gasp at the concept of smurfs? Act like supports having damage capabilities is new? Believe the factually incorrect comments about the kunais?
I’m confused about everything in this post?
Kiriko’s whole play style is flank, dps, leave. Throw a suzu now and again and you’ve got her mastered? If you’re not doing damage on any support, you’re legit throwing. Also, you saying her kunai are easy to hit is hilarious, I’ve seen legit master-GM people struggle.
If you’re smurfing, of course you’re gonna stomp lobbies. That’s not a new thing and it’ll never be a thing that’s stopped or dealt with. I’m genuinely failing to understand the point of the post
Please do, I just unlocked her and it seems tough so far.
Easy to hit?
Can I have some of what you’re on cause if you think they’re easy to hit you’re high in the sky man.
They mught be a moderate size, but the weird projectile speed messes that up, much like Lucio’s primary fire too, although that’s a bit more forgiving due to the low dps.
Yeah. I got to see some of the averages for these top players doing noheals kirikos or top 10-500.
They were showing off averages of 80-90% accuracy with 70%+ headshot accuracy on dps bots and averaging like 44-55 kills a minute.
For comparison at 200 hp a target, a bronze moira’s 50 dps baseline gets around 10-13 kills a minute with walk/retarget time at 4s to kill a target, and 1-2s to get in distance of the next.
A baseline 100% accuracy dps gun is about 100-140 dps with 100% bodyshot accuracy.
Kiriko’s kunai is baseline like 65-70 dps and 200 on headshots. (S76 reaches like 160 firing dps and 320 w/headshot dps ceiling)
They were averaging like 40-50++ kills a minute on their widows and mccrees, which is like a perfect pixel headshot every hit and probably at a rate of near 400% more effective dps than the average player off just primaries.
Just because a grandmaster pro can make it look easy, doesn’t mean anyone can. Though ofc paper dps isn’t everything. Suprise Chunkiness matters too. A good dps might fade if they see them steadily going down to a 140 dmg mccree headshot or mercy pistol, but if they get surprise one shotted by a hanzo arrow or 120/200 hp kunai followed by a second.
There can be some suprise kill potential on her with good escape tps.
Many bad players just take the wrong message that dpsing is more important than healing when top 50-500 gms CAN dish out 70%+ crit accuracy and 90% accuracy to their bronze 10% accuracy kiriko.
The gms are hitting rates where they can dish out 100-200++ dmg a second with ultra accurate headshots and one shots while bronze dps kirikos die 4v1 vs 24 hp/s moiras.
The difference between a bronze support and a gm support might only be like +20% more healing avg a minute, maybe 8k/10 min avg to 10-11k/10 min.
But a gm difference on dps can be literal 4-10 fold differences between timmy the 10% accuracy silver and jimmy the 90% accuracy gm. Their effective dmg and pick getting potential caps far above their healing potential. But many of them still heal when the enemy is down vs many bronze dps moiras or dps supports.
The god tier aim + prediction is what makes them strong, not kiriko’s low 70 bodyshot dps with a awkward projectile.
ML7 and most T500 supports disagree that they’re easy to hit… You have to keep in mind they’re headshot only unlike all other weapons in the game (even bodyshot Widow is better than bodyshot Kiriko).
The kunai are borderline hitscan if you’re close enough to the person, just click on their head and you probably won’t miss the headshot.
i tried but for me its 20 kunai one kill. i still love playing her tho once in a while. pretty fun but i stick with moira most of the time
Yeah so is hanzo or mccree. And anyone complaining about the 120 dmg nade still one shots with a 140 dmg headshot until +60 healing with like a 1s reaction window where another headshot can just gib em.
The 120 dmg chunks are what makes kiriko’s kunai potential suprise spaghetti.
Zen can already do 150 bodyshot dps (300 headshot dps) with discord and charge a bodyshot 5x 48-60 dmg discorded orbshot to deal 240 no discord, 300 dmg discorded with like a 2s charge.
You can also do the charge before you’ve aimed making only the shots you have lined up matter.
There’s a reason he’s seen as one of the most dps like supports while still doing 60% of mercy’s 45-55 hp/s on orb to provide a +25% discord vs mercy’s +30% boost.
With 150 discorded dps that often even rival or exceed many dps’s 100-160 firing dpses.
People who say dps abilities don’t matter may also find themselves being hard dived by dvas, spawncamped by sombras, shot in the head and rocket shotted by s76/sojourn etc, mccree naded etc.
Zenyatta of all the supports can actually self carry himself off dmg just like bap. But in any rank where mmr isn’t intentionally thrown.
If you’re x good with your characters, your peers using 2x dedicated hitscan dps probably are too, and will make a equal rank player chunky spaghetti unless you’re smurfing or catching them off guard.
Plus even bronze rank players will often tend to notice if a super good hitscan or s76/mccree/hanzo/smurf widow starts shooting them and at least usually start rein/sigma walling you or mei walling.
You can turn fights over by getting excellent picks, a healers job may be to heal, but a grandmasters might be to keep a team advantage.
Whether that’s unironical top 39 dps moiras 1v2ing supports at spawn so their team takes a 4v3 while the healless tank and dps die to attrition with a good main healer.
Or people healing to 5v4 but getting a sniper or good pick can all turn fights.
Bronze players copying ideas without the understanding why have a habit of turning 5v5s into 1v5s leaving their own teams to die, or intentionally doing 0 heals.
The gm players might do that to show a smurf challenge run.
A copycat bronze might do it to 2k dmg 1k (self) healing moira/kiriko while their team dies, and the lobby does 10-20 dps aim.
Where ignoring their 70+ hp/s aoe healing entirely means their team dies to attrition while the enemy team scoops up 2-5x more healing, and thus enter every fight as a 5v2, killing all and losing none.
There are some good points to learn with looking for opportunities and smart picks.
But i have the feeling a lot of bronze dps moiras/kirikos missing every shot and killing every team mate might take heal=bad, dps= gud to a new elo purgatory.
ML7 has a great video about this, called “whot 0 hours of Kiriko looks like” : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpUzoDqFSx8
He also has the same for 100 and 200 hours.
He’s a T500 player, has been for quite some time, and was still unable to land most shots for a long, long time. No, it’s not easy to land shots with Kiriko. You can get lucky, you will get much better with a ton of practice, but it’s still not easy.
And yet, Kayjit often had less DPS than his DPS, even though they weren’t healing at all. So what does that means? Same for any other support. You can DPS, but you’re never the best DPS on your team.