Ana unfair 80 dmg nerf + QOL changes

General Discussion
41

basically yeah.

You cant make the excuse “there a lot of players on the forum we don’t see some stuff” when a dude has 3000 posts on the old forum discussing Ana, never getting a developer reply, and basically the difference between rants of pickrate or logic & reason from the player who actually plays the class. (On the old forums I replied to every response I got on my Ana threads gave in-depth fair and respectable feedback, and no dev comment. It was insulting and cruel to me).

Jeff Kaplan was like “man I know what its like to say somethings bad about the game, and not get a developer to reply when I was younger”

Yet that same garbage is happening to me. Waiting on 80 damage forever.

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42

I’d take a nice general, frequently updated hah, post about their standings on each character with a rebuttal to common complaints/questions/suggestions. Would be nice to have a bit more explanation on the whys and whats of some of the things done/not done.

43

I mean I think they should just start replying and giving some back in forth feedback with threads that have in-depth balance feedback.

because the main poster & people on the thread who supported it deserve some replys.

It would feel brutally unfair if a person with 3000 posts on a hero about balance never got a reply or some counter feedback while they just make some random thread where people out of nowhere can ask questions.

I saw that D.va balance thread with heavy in-depth feedback FINALLY get developer response that was like “no we don’t agree” and I was like man… that dude has been posting for ages to get a reply, and thats what they get? A person who actually plays the class and understands it well got upvoted like crazy. Like wow. Sucks. Then later they rework d.va adding rockets cause of ego.

…but I don’t know much about D.va, I know a lot about Ana. I just trust in general people who play, understand, and know details about the heroes they play will usually have the best feedback.

44

Dva is actually better than before. The problem is all the counterplay heroes to heroes like Dva are all considered unfun so they are kept weak. Because for some reason unfun = unbalanced. I hate the new dva more than matrix dva because I played counters to that annoying style of just hold matrix.

I believe Dva shouldn’t be able to shoot and fly and having those missiles makes it worst still.

45

I mean I don’t remember the details too well, but I just know that poster was on and on the forum constantly posting feedback, and to watch devs just be like no finally sucked. Then later they add rockets for a random reason that did not address their concerns.

point is like there is a difference between a player who loves the class & will post in-depth balance feedback from their understanding compared to rant threads cause unfun = unbalanced, must nerf, lets rant in crowds and spam. Just look at Brigitte, imagine someone who actually likes that class.

and then we see rant threads trash talking pickrate get balance changes, but when the player who plays the role talks about feedback it is ignored brutally.

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46

Once a thread or post has enough momentum in it, I don’t think a lot of dev responses would be really accepted by the community since it either wouldn’t be ‘enough’ of a response or they’d be held at their word - and when that didn’t come to fruition exactly as described, the forums would riot about how they were lied to.

Seeing how players react to some changes, I’d personally be worried about any kind of reply post. It would probably be much simpler to take a generic question and give an answer on their own. Perhaps a bit less satisfying, but less likely to cause problems I would think.

47

It’s because Unfun/Oppressive is looked at more than anything. But Mercy is a character who amplifies all the Unfun/Oppressive and she is Unfun/Oppressive herself yet they ignore the failure of the Mercy’s rework because of ego and not to mention of being a cash cow.

Mercy is too popular to stand against the community. Remember what they said during the Seagull interview?

“If we nerf Mercy we have to fight against the internet.”

Some people believe they were probably joking but I sure don’t.

48

I think if they just had some devs stop in within the week and just spend a few hours replying to posts with some back and forth feedback.

Their replys would feel less like god replys, and more like human replys w/ possible mistakes made.

The only reason they get a huge backlash is because they reply so little. So little to the point some youtuber makes a big deal about it on video. Their feedback, balance cycle is soooooooooooo slow. Thats one of the problems I see.

You only get a backlash from the community, because its this build up of player feedback that goes unnoticed. I’d probably be super upset with my 3000+ posts about Ana to see a developer tell me “shes a healer not a dps”

49

This is probably the most crippling thing. People might freak out less on every change if change happened in a day or a week rather than months.

It also seems like there’s been less and less dev replies as we go. And i can’t blame them really, I’ve seen the posts that want so-and-so dev fired because obviously one person is responsible for everything that happens. :\

There’s been decent backlash for things they haven’t even done (yet) because they’d given a guess-timate time frame before. Like with some of Reins fixes. “They said April but here we are…” Though I’m not excusing some of the … cute remarks as replies for something viewed, and demonstrated, as broken. I would think that’s a bit more infuriating than no reply - to feel mocked, almost.

50

yeah thats what I am saying man.

People 100% have the right to be frustrated and pissed off if it takes months and months for a developer response.

I’m blaming them for crippling slow balance, and lack of developer feedback. A lot of times I rather swap spots with the developer to know whats going on, make balance changes, and hop on the forum and reply to a lot of people for a few hours.

Their post seem carefully worded and like their scared to get yelled at. If you posted casually there would never be a huge back lash since the community could just be informed, and not sitting and waiting with frustration.

51

I think you’re underestimating how absolutely sh**ty people can be on the other side of a monitor. I wouldn’t want to be the face of a game - then you’re just a target. |:

IDK, I agree with you in wishing that everything was pretty much replied to, things happened faster, etc. but like I said, I can kind of see why they don’t want to. At least now. Maybe if it had gone better from the start, who knows.

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52

I really wish developers would act on these changes and add them when it comes to 80 damage & QOL changes / bug fixes.

I see at times people ask for certain changes like Widowmaker lower hook cool-down or Junkrat reworks and when they do add them, it overall refines the mechanics of that character making them feel smoother. When they don’t, they end up with horrible reworks. Like a lot of Blizzard reworks no offense are bad.

When they listen to the players who actually play the class & give a crap about their feedback, the game gets improved.

53

I’m still bothered by how Junkrat got his weakness completely removed but Ana getting one huge weakness removed like getting a passive heal is such a problem.

54

I think she actually doesn’t need a self-heal passive. Her sustain, her passive is playing at a distance, but stuff gets in the way.

If you look at what is messed up about Ana, a lot has to do with getting in the way of her distanced playstyle which is indeed her strength. She operates different from mercy. From the developers perspective I assume they want Ana to be this hybrid sniper w/ strong utility, but no mobility. Exploitable for enemy, but high skill = high reward for the Ana player.

but they do not consider a lot of things get in the way of her distanced playstyle which is terrible since her strength, but a lot of clunky bad design gets in the way (like suggested QOL changes above). Things like no mobility, lacking in rifle damage at 70, having to jump down from high ground to nanoboost. These are the aspects that take away from her distanced playstyle she benefits from.

Ana is a different role, perhaps she is not meant to have self heals like Moira or Mercy, but is meant to be less clunky and improve on that distanced sniper support playstyle.

This is sorta why it makes no sense to remove 80 damage, as she needs it to defend high ground area in 1v1 so she can do her job at a distance… but with things like 60 or 70 dmg roles like Tracer or Doomfist easily overwhelm her. Armor is HEAVILY broken against her damage. Clunky design gets in the way too much.

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55

True but giving her passive healing doesn’t ruin the no mobility weakness. Also in Heroes of the Storm they gave her a passive heal because she had problems of sustain. There’s way too much chip damage in this game for Ana to survive. She spends most of the time using nade on herself than on enemies or allies which is a problem. But I do believe she does need those QoL changes but not having mobility in this game hurts a person a lot. Also Widowmaker easily counters Ana’s advantage and all the other heroes who recently got damage fall off buffs.

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56

HOS & OW are 2 different games, also passive healing not in the way of no mobility is not the point of I was getting at.

I was getting at the idea of “does she really need passive heals in the 1st place if her role is designed to be playing at a distance w/ a sniper?”

Roles like Mercy, Moira, Zenyatta, and Soldier 76 have some way of regen on HP, but they all have a theme of playing in the front=line clumped up with the team. When you look at a role like Ana, she does something all those roles don’t which is playing at a distance while being able to play outside of the team solo much like Widowmaker can. Yet Widowmaker has no heals at all. A hook, warning mine, and high damage for sustain while using range / angles to her advantage.

I worry when people talk about passive self-heals or mobility for Ana, because not having those things is what gives more variety to the game. The idea of a hybrid sniper w/ no mobility, and has to use a lot of strategy & multi-task.

If a passive regen is needed, but mainly for the purpose of chip damage only, then I would like to say this; not like mercy self-heals, not adding shields, but adding a passive self-heal that fits within her playstyle. Either landing shots that heal teammates, or landing nade on a set number of players doing damage or instant health… This inturn would heal Ana BUT BRUTALLY SLOW, almost useless. This way it is mainly to gain health back, but is really no form of sustain. ONLY for chip damage. Ana is not Mercy, and it isn’t sustain ability like that. As for what you say about her wasting nade, making improvements on her damage helps this scenario such as the 80 damage or fixed armor. Really helps when you give her proper damage numbers for sustain / use. Scenarios like Tracer, Doomfist, armor overwhelm her, and a lot of 200hp heroes can slightly regen or grab a healthpack and counter 70 dmg too easily making it take more shots to kill a.k.a forcing nade, because unbalanced damage.

Passives & reworks is a gray area that really makes me uneasy and I would almost do it as a last resort. I would rather refine mechanics & see whats weak in her kit 1st.

Can you repost your QOL list, its a pain to keep scrolling up, but I still want to read through / discuss. Also where did you get the “time it takes to reload” numbers from, I assume the Ana wiki, but I would like to see some reloads of other roles on how long they take.

57

But here’s the thing though. She technically had passive healing when Lucio had 30 meters of range. That’s why nobody talked about Ana having sustain problems.

Remember she’s been indirectly nerf multiple times. Most of the people who did well with who have protected her got changed plus newer heroes like Doomfist introduced in the game brought more problems for her.

Ana has lost a lot more than she has gained and the game is getting faster. Ana should be sniping from afar but she barely does now because being too far away leaves her open to flankers. Also snipers are very strong too. Also yes damage does help but I don’t see Blizzard giving the extra 10 because they gave us back our 3 shot kill. Plus too many people saying she doesn’t need it doesn’t make the case of getting it back more likely.

58

No 80 damage. Lifes a struggle for a tracer main with mei sniping and the hitscan buffs. We dont need even more power creep from supports. Make ana heal and do her job her damage is fine.

59

You gotta be more specific man.

I listed reasons why Ana w/ 80 damage is fair, played Tracer myself against Ana w/ 80 damage, and I feel its fair for the enemy tracer. Now regarding other roles do understand a majority of damage roles including roles within support have easier 1v1’s with Tracer and can kill her much faster with less skill involved as well. 80 damage 4 shots to kill a Tracer w/ recall is fair given the amount of strengths and huge advantages she has over Ana.

When did she have passive healing? self-healing?

Also to be fair in general people have a lack of understanding about Ana due to her being a very unique design even still to this day.

Also the moment I had problems with sustain & doing my role on Ana was the moment her damage went from 80 to 60 or 70. When I had 80 damage for the most part I could manage just fine & sustain or chip damage was not an issue for me. I also played near 100+ hours of Ana in competitive ranking around masters to low grandmasters, but gradually just stop playing her cause of the damage nerf.

True she has been indirectly nerfed a lot, and received plenty of nerfs as the roster has changed for a long time, but consider this. Ana has utility & damage for sustain. Regardless if the utility has better uses for team-play, the way Ana defends herself is in a dueler fashion.

1 of her problems is the rifle damage issue with armor & 70 damage. If we increased this she would have fewer problems with doomfist or tracer if the players skill is there. You must be very cautious with Ana, the slightest changes in her could make her op or hurt her heavily.

Which is why I say careful, if you want a passive self-heal you must make it so its literally ONLY for chip damage since thats the issue. Otherwise you are playing with fire possibly making a power creep dueler that overwhelms enemy flankers.

but understand why people say no. A lot of it has to do with illogical points such as jumping to conclusions or not understanding Ana. She is well designed around the 80 damage, & is fair for balance. Almost no fair reason she shouldn’t have 80 damage.

60

When I said she had passive healing I meant Lucio’s range was so big that Ana was basically never out of his range which basically came off as a passive heal for Ana on top of having the 80 damage back then.

The real thing that made her OP was mostly the 100% Healing Boost. Don’t get me wrong I do believe she needs the 80 damage back especially since armor became more important.

But because she kind of had a passive heal along with the 80 damage why can’t she have something similar back now?