Awh man, he said our stated problems were all extremely exaggerated with nothing else to back that up, guess we lost 
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I am aware enough of how things work in the game industry that moving from one game to another specifically to house such a fundamental change is very costly both dev time and financially. Nothing to say of how your actions will effect your public image. Suffice to say just because something is literally possible doesn’t mean it actually is in any meaningful context.
There are limits to what players can impact. We’re not talking about an oppressed population over throwing a dictator. Money is about the hardest influence people have for games and unfortunately for 6v6 lovers Blizzard makes more than enough money that they don’t need to revert.
Even if they didn’t break even with OW2 they would be more than content with shuttering support for the game and spend their money and dev time on something that does make them money than gamble with a revert.
Begging for 6v6 back is not improving Overwatch 2 and you’d be delusional to think otherwise. If you actually cared about OW2 you’d be making suggestions to improve the current game within it’s current frame work. Not chucking out the current one for an old one.
OW2 is financially a success. They also abandoned OW1 for multiple years so you’re just playing revisionist history here. 5v5 wasn’t “sudden.” The release of OW2 needed more time for sure. But it was released early to re-coupe the cost they spent on making OW2.
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Real talk you just randomly stated the obvious here. Woah! Money is the driving force behind greedy billion dollar businesses?!!
I told you outright I know it isnt likely to happen, because Im aware it can be a money sink. Im just of the opinion that Overwatch will be put in a better place and require less development if we go back to 6v6. Its quite literally a revert, there is no planning or heavy testing to be done outside of implementation, because we already have all the data and numbers that says itll work out fine.
If League of Legends will go back and forth on a Mythic Item system, effectively reworking every last item and component in the game because it just isnt working, I promise the sad little billionaires in charge of Blizzard would green light returning 2 player slots to the game, especially considering its still in the game with customs.
Development takes money regardless. Whether they keep 5v5 or go back to 6v6 it doesnt really matter, money will be spent, and im certain reverts with all the data they need and pre-existing systems for 6v6 already in place will cost less money than a lot of big changes theyd have to do in the future to get this game in a good place. What the community who wants 6v6 is trying to do is convince Blizzard the game will be better and more people would be happier to stick around and get scammed of their money in a 6v6 game.
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Was going to say, yes everyone knows this. But I felt like dps mains are the ones who absolutely hated 6v6 because of double shield and two big fat piles of hp blubbering around. DPS mains love 5v5 because tanks are now dps, half the support roster is dps friendly, and there is only one tank to shoot.
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I mean, the game plays fine, so uh, yeah I’d say so
The game would “play fine” as a 7v7 or a 4v4, what you say has literally zero meaning or impact. The guy gives you another example outside of ana being an issue caused by 5v5 by bringing up how Bastion interacts with only one tank, meaning bullet rain comps can disproportionately affect shields.
But nah you just say every last point is an exaggeration like it means you win.
Youre a random on a game forum like the rest of us, no need to use a politician’s discrediting strat, it has no value here and theres no need to try and make us think any lower of you.
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Oh, is that so? So what you’re saying is that we don’t need 6v6 then?
Also Bastion is totally fine, he’s always been a skill check and that hasn’t changed. Also also, the Bastion we have in 5v5 is totally different to the Bastion from 6v6, so not even a good example.
Holy christ my guy, youre figuring out just now that things can be better than “fine”? The entire argu is that the game is better off in a 6v6 and 5v5 is a mistake. Dumpsters lit on fire can roll down hills “fine” enough so long as they have wheels.
Also since when have we referred to weak off meta picks as “skill checks”. What bastion always HAS been is an underpowered niche only one trick found value with in high elo.
ALSO ALSO, remind me where old v new bastion matters to the example. Is it suddenly not true that bastion can disproportionately affects shields when in comparison to Ow1? If anything when we consider old v new bastion it makes our case even better, because he screws over shields more now than ever, in a reworked state where his damage right now is down from ow1.
He used to have 15 per bullet down to 4.5 at max fall off with 31 rounds per second compared to the new 12 per bullet down to 3.6 at max fall off with 1 less round per minute. Yet he’s still more of a menace to shields than before.
Remember the people shilling for Blizzard and saying “5v5 will be easier to balance” well here we are and balance is a mess. If anything the game has become more of a mess where counter swapping is worse than it ever was in OW1.
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Ill half agree here.
Thing is- I think Ana was still a problem in 6v6- But I do think 5v5 highlighted and exacerbated these issues.
Now ill also add Im totally fine with 5v5 in premise. In fact I prefer it. The “problem” i have with 5v5 is that the developers had some design goals/directions they presented to us in order to make 5v5 work, but Ana got completely overlooked (And im quite convinced intentionally so. Its quite blatant how much they favor her at this point) for these goals. Worse yet, the overwatch 2 support changes compounded the issues of playing against her- Namely their desire to “Give all the roles a passive!”. The support self heal means ana has less pressure to use the bio nade on herself, and can more consistently use the nade offensively.
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I mean, I agree with the first three paragraphs, I just don’t see how it translates into the last few.
The point really is that it halves the number of people required to play the role. OW1’s situation wasn’t acceptable because it required an unrealistic number of tank players. How would reverting it help it? I don’t see much evidence that they’ve become more competent at designing tank gameplay, nor any willingness to fix their issues.
all supports are balanced in a way that they have clear weaknesses and strengths until they added moira which broke that balance philosophy. ever since then all support have been incredibly broken. ana is perfect example of good balance[without support passive] she has exceptional single target healing but lacks group healing she has great offensive potential but does so on the cost of her own defense as her sleep dart alone could save her but not all the time. she also has no movement abilities. so she’s got good heals good damage good util but no movement and has to balance between anti or save herself. nowadays however not only does she have self healing but a brig defending means she can spam anti without risking anything and having one less tank means she gets to focus the only tank. her kit is broken 5v5. ana was the first dlc overwatch hero she was made for 6v6 open queue gameplay. and then later for 6v6 role queue. 5v5 is ruining overwatch. ana isn’t the issue its everything around ana[and the support passive]
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I’ve heard way more complaints about baptiste than ana back in OW1. Can you elaborate on how ana was problematic in 6v6? Even Samito (forum’s favorite streamer) loves the design of ana especially in 6v6.
Tracer and DPS in general were waay more busted back in OW1 in most ranks (except T500 since DPS’s value goes down at higher ranks).
Sadly being easier to balance doesn’t imply a willingness to balance.
Blizzard will outright let OW2 die before they consider not letting Ana have a 100% pickrate, and hardcounter half of the most dead role.
They do as the streamers command, and the streamers say more Ana.
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both are issues, but nerfing ana is a lot easier for blizzard to do in the short term
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Ana isn’t the only outlier me thinks. Tracer also sucks to play in 5v5 because she feels too weak now. And we can’t buff her since she’ll quickly become too OP. There’s nothing we can do to make tracer feel powerful in 5v5 like she did back in OW1.
Wrecking ball feels terrible to play in 5v5 too even without ana on the enemy team.
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You’re right. I meant to say 5 v 5. Fixed that.
Well yeah?
Other heroes thay were problematic in 5v5 were reworked to fit the game. OW1 Sombra would have very similar issues to Ana if she was dropped into OW2.
The solution is to fix Ana, not to upend the entire game just to preserve one hero.
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I’ve said this earlier to someone else, but it isn’t just Ana. I’d say shes the biggest problem, but theres so many more. Just look what happened to Zen
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I’d argue it’s both. For the reasons you state, but also the support passive allows Ana to be more aggressive with nade than she used to be in OW1. It used to be her only form of self healing. Support passive allows her to have her cake and eat it too, while the loss of a tank simultaneously made landing aggressive nades not only easier but also more valuable. It’s more valuable because if you help secure the kill on the tank, then the enemy team simply has no tank to make that much needed space for the team and a bigger portion of your team is now dead generating zero value now.
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