so, why do you play overwatch and not some other game?
Because there are shooters in Overwatch? Seriously. Do you need every single thing explained? If there are shooter characters in a shooter game there will be people who play shooters because they like shooter characters.
thanks man, I appreciate that Iâm not the only one who feels this way.
But why not another shooter? Thatâs my question. Why do you play this one and not fortnite, CSGO or something else with a shorter queue time for you to just shoot?
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Because weâre not toddlers that believe all games are the exact same.
dude. untilt. Iâm legitimately trying to get at the heart of your motivation for playing this game. why do you love this one enough to post on a message board? Itâs likely the same reason I do, and I just would like for the motivating rewards to be as strong for other roles. It would benefit you, because you would have shorter queue times. So why would you try to fight me on that?
I like shooters. But that doesnât mean every shooter character is a CoD character. I like certain shooter characters in Overwatch (Bastion), but that doesnât change the fact that I like him as a shooter character. I could never main a hero who doesnât primarily get elims. Thatâs the way I play any game. If I play a tank or support in Dota 2, I find a way to kill enemies with it.
And your argument is that none of those games provide any kind of positive reinforcement for landing shots or getting kills?
Iâm not trying to put words in your mouth, what I have taken away from your arguments is that 1) you claim that sounds, awards, and markers donât provide players with positive reinforcement and that 2) giving such reinforcements to tank and support players would be a bad idea.
If Iâve misinterpreted, I apologize. I come from a psychology and educaiton background, so I am simply trying to propose a way to relieve the massive queue times through the things we already understand about human nature. Further, I want to point out that not every player is just out to get kills. In fact, I play overwatch because I am able to play heroes in which I can have an impact in other ways. (Even though I have been known to aggro Lucio when necessary.)
This is all a long way of saying Iâm confused by the things youâre posting. You seem to have taken a contrary stance to subtle rewards for tanks and supports which doesnât make sense since it would benefit dps players too.
I specifically said very clearly that assists only work if the dps does their job right. Thatâs pretty much it.
Every single comment youâve done it.
First you claimed that I said you were Ana, when I made it clear it was an example already.
Then you claimed I was saying we shouldnât have positive reinforcement. I actually never brought that up.
So I responded to that subject and you claimed I only wanted this game to cater to shooters.
Then you acted like I couldnât tell the difference between CS:GO and Overwatch shooters and tried some sort of weird argument about how I could play any shooter at all and theyâd be the same.
Then you claim Iâm fighting rewards again.
Then you claim there that I said thereâs no rewards.
Iâm very close to just being done with this. You do put words in my mouth constantly. Thatâs why Iâm getting short with you.
supports and tanks donât really belong in a shooter, even if its hybrid, hence why they feel so crap to play in OW.
Take a game like SMITE where the âsupportâ and âtankâ role are centered entirely around that, supporting and tanking, it feels really good to do what you do.
doing things like playing Baron, and hitting a snake for a root, then comboing them with their 2 to heal your teammates. It feels good because you did what you were supposed to do and your kit is CENTERED around it. the fun part of the kit is still supportive, it feels good to hit the skill shot of a snake on baron and set your ADC up for an easy kill, and it also falls in line with your kit.
now we have overwatch where you hold shields, and heal bot, and shoot, giving support sure, but in no fun or rewarding way. the fun part is Shooting, but the shooting has no real tie to your role.
Its the reason why Ana and baptiste are probably the most favored supports, because they still carry out their role while having all the fun of why you come to a shooter.
people go to mobas to press buttons and land abilities, thatâs the fun of it (not all of it but a big part) people come to shooters to shoot things. And supports and tanks donât have that tied into their main kits for the most part.
What exactly do you suggest they do? Most tank and support ultimates are very flashy, have huge call outs, and can totally change the course of a game.
On fire kind of sucks, because you can literally stand on the objective more than other people and become on fire without doing much else. I donât think anyone puts much weight into it.
POTG is a crap system as well. Theyâve tried to weight it more heavy to supports and what not with âlifesaverâ type POTGâs, but they are usually pretty lackluster to watch.
As an example, they could improve the feedback for blocking damage with a shield. Letâs compare the feedback you get when youâre blocking damage vs when youâre killing enemies.
When you shoot someone, you get a hitmarker in the form of an audio cue and an animation around your crosshair, giving you immediate confirmation that youâve done something good.
If you land a crit, you get a special dink noise and a special animation.
Both the regular and crit hit indicators are specifically designed to instill a sense of impact and importance - This is why regular hits use a white âhitâ animation with a noise (I donât even know what to call it, you know the one) and crit hits use a larger red animation with a âdinkâ.
And then when you kill someone, you get a big red skull and a special âenemy killedâ sound. Your kill also appears in the killfeed for everyone to see.
Compare that to what happens when youâre blocking damage. If a shot hits your shield, it disappears with the same visual indicator as though it hit the wall behind you (i.e, explosives will explode and hitscan shots will just disappear). You get a âsomething hit your shieldâ noise that is always the same.
If there was parity between the killing/blocking motivators:
- Blocked shots would have special visual indicators.
- Blocked shots that would have hit someone would be emphasised with a special visual and audio effect.
- Blocked shots that would have killed someone would be further emphasised.
Improving this feedback for tanking would also improve the POTG issue (that support/tank potgs are visually boring outside of big ults) - The watchers can immediately see and hear the work that the Rein did because they can see the block-markers and life-safing blocks in the replay, instead of just seeing them hold rmb and throw a firestrike.
I know that tanking and healing does use these sorts of feedback mechanisms, but theyâre super weak compared to the DPS ones.
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Well, an example of this in the game already would be Zarya. She has quite an appealing âbuild upâ sound as people hit her bubbles and she gets charge.
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Thatâs a good example - Iâm not saying that these things donât exist for tanks or supports, just that theyâre not nearly as consistent.
DPS spends the entire game shooting at people and getting hitmarkers - Many times a second in some cases - Zarya bubbles (herself or a friendly) roughly twice every 10 seconds at most.
Iâm all for this and do believe it would make some impact, but no matter what DPS will be generally viewed as the most fun. Most video games are you dominating against AI (story games) defeating an opponent (general games with a versus mode) or racking a ton of kills (general FPS) Most people who play OW will have a history of video games played and the video game culture rewards you defeating, outdoing or simply dominating your opponents. Tanks and Supports do not fit this mold and require a player to shift their perspective and forget everything they know about video games first.
Not just that but as humans we donât like to be defeated. DPS are considered the most possible to carry with, even if theyâre not as strong as the Tanks or Supports because of their kill potential. So people try to look for a fast and easy way to win and think mastering DPS is the way to do so. Plus people hate to die or feel defenseless, meaning theyâll go DPS just to win a duel to not die. If they do die, theyâre more likely to get revenge kills on someone with DPS rather than the other roles.
The last thing to look at that makes DPS more appealing to the average player is the fact that we praise the role. Because of the first two paragraphs I stated, we look at DPS as the ideal hero with the most fun potential. With the fact everyone wants to play DPS, we get less chances to play it ourselves. Therefore we end up having a bigger itch to play the heroes we never get to.
So in theory, you can make Supports and Tanks more appealing but DPS will always be the most played. Itâs accessible, translates with most video games, straight forward and doesnât look like a chore to the average player.
My favorite role to play as is Support
Sometimes I think the âkill feedâ shouldnât be only a âkill feedâ.
It should display important and impactful actions done by supports and tanks as well, such as D.va/Sigma eating ults, or LĂșcio and Zen completely denying X amount of damage.
But to be fair, there is some positive visual reinforcement you get for being a support or tank. When you play Mercy, for example, you will get the Red Skull after successfully assisting an ally with Dmg Boost. Ana will get the Red Skulls when nano boosted ally kills enemies.
As any support, you will get the (small) visual mark of âassistâ anytime you use your utility ability or healing in an ally who kills an enemy (like LĂșcio speed boosting ally Reaper who kills an enemy).
As tank, you get the visual mark of âblockingâ with abilities such as D.vaâs DM, or any shield.
I just think the âRed Skullâ is much more impactful and gratifying to see. They should create a âRed Skullâ version of tanking and supporting.
Exactly - This is a good example of the kind of motivator thatâs present for DPS play and missing for support and tank play.
Youâre right, there is, but personally, I donât feel that theyâre nearly as motivating as hit/kill indicators. Perhaps the issue isnât that these motivators arenât there, but the less-than-obvious connection between your action and the action being rewarded.
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Also Healers chances of getting POTG got buffed I think. Iâve seen a good amount of Healer POTGs with some of them not deserving it. I gravitoned a team and my Pharah wiped them out with barrage (a 5k at that) The play goes to enemy Moira during that moment with her using coalescence on her team in the grav, and didnât get a kill with it, an assist or save a life with it. She only got crap ton of healing and ran away afterwords.
This example makes me think making Supports get POTGs just from healing isnât a good idea since there could be no play going on and leave the players confused. Healers should get POTGs from dmg or speed boosting the team into getting kills. Rezzing a guy who gets kills afterwords or pocketing a team member who gets play. That or healing a lot while also preventing your team from dying (i.e. transcing 3 ults at once or something)
Itâs drastically skewed. The POTG system really sucks. Moiraâs ultimate, for instance, can often get it because she touches a lot of people. Then there are support like Mercy who itâs virtually impossible to get POTG on anymore.