Forgive me if I answer for him, but you are altering the basic information, unfortunately voluntarily.
If you omit part of the text, altering its meaning, it is alteration of the information (a crime in all civilized countries).
Cuthberth said: this patent highlights the possibility that the algorithm alters the possibility of winning matches with respect to the normal principles of sportsmanship, to pursue commercial purposes for the sole benefit of the company (patent written by actiblizzard, not by cuthberth). To make players win and lose in rotation, to make them obtain the same number of wins and losses (approximately) in X games, this occurs not as a natural consequence of balanced matches, but as an average of many unbalanced matches. (a system who must first do favors to one or the other player to prevent one of the other from abandoning the title or making fewer or more purchases).
What you said: cuthbert says that having 50% wins is synonymous of bad balance.
Look my example if you don’t want to read the article of Cuthbert (but you had before commenting)
You pretend this 2 examples are the same, omitting the information Cuthberth provided.
This is information corruption, a crime in many countries. It is not ethical.
If you want to discuss with cuthbert (or other users) read the patent, read the text produced by cuthberth and comment on it without omitting parts (or most in this case) altering its meaning.
obviously I see you are one of the hundred of profiles with almost 0 comments that write in the forum with always the likes of abdullah and heyzeus, we all know what’s the group activity
I think PBSR is wrong for competitive play as well. There are play styles and skills that win matches yet aren’t considered when awarding skill points, for example coms and ult tracking.
My replay list currently looks like:
W
W
L
W
T
W
W
W
W
W
60% + WR over 163 games this season yet still I only get 20sr for a win, simply because my play style doesn’t produce the stats they deem to be above average.
I actually climbed to support plat through placement matches the first time in my life - on TWO accounts at the same time without any struggle. I’ve literally won 20-25 games in a row by now. Both accounts are exactly in the same SR range, around 2580, so no smurfing.
It’s funny because I couldn’t reach plat for four years. And this time it was actually easy.
I think it has something to do with my 6 month break and mental cleanse. I’m not even hardtrying, actually. Only playing focused.
Pretend the forum is a little apartment, where we all users live.
Pretend that in the apartment next door there is a very rich cat (his name is “matchmaking”) who has signed a will in which upon his death he will leave all his dowry to his owner (activision blizzard)
Now pretend that half of the users in this room (including Youroverwatch or Shroud) have been complaining of a big dead cat smell in the next room.
Now this user Cuthberth has found the receipt for cat poison, signed by the neighbor (activision blizzard), on the door, with an attached rudimentary drawing showing a box, with a vial of poison and a cat inside; also signed by our neighbor ActivisionBlizzard.
We are all here in this thread because we have serious, reasonable and legitimate doubts that the cat may have been poisoned, and what we are asking is that the owner open the door and allow us to ascertain the cat’s health.
What many users (like you) answer is that the cat is alive for sure, although it is not possible to open the box to check, that in reality we do not care about the health of the cat, but we are unskilled, we rant, lazy, or any other excuse that does not take into account. the idea of the possibility of that the dead of cat happened, as well as not taking into consideration the idea that the box can be opened.
So your saying is that blizz should stop making fair matches because its a crime? Everyone is crying about not being able to climb because of the matchmaking but a 50/50 match lets YOU turn the tides of the match. So should we make it impossible to climb then?
Why did SkullBuzz’s post get flagged? I don’t think he’s wrong, I think the matchmaker does take your stats/skill into account for the 50/50 (or 40/40/20). Which means the better you are at the game, the harder opponents and weaker teammates you’ll get. At least in quickplay, it feels that way. Not too sure if competitive is the same but I don’t see why it can’t be.
But like I said earlier, I believe there was a cap to this ‘hard mode’ which was only decreasing your odds of winning to ~40% (instead of 50%). And if you win these types of games, you gain more SR through PBSR. I believe the matchmaker doesn’t try to give you games with less than that percentage. But the system doesn’t get it right all the time and if it later determines that the odds of you winning that game was actually significantly less than that, you will lose less SR as compensation.
There are however times where you will only get 20 - 30% odds of winning and still lose the full SR unjustifiably. This is usually when you get matched against smurfs on a new account with “bad” MMR stats. They probably fake their MMR by leveling up their account to 25 by playing badly in quickplay or just playing lots of custom games. Or when one of your team member leaves (which the matchmaker sadly can’t account for). But obviously, the more the smurf plays competitive, the higher their MMR will be (if they’re stomping on lower elos) so they’ll eventually either get boosted up to a higher rank based on PBSR and/or they’ll start facing enemy smurfs of their own to make the game 50/50.
But of course, it can go the other way too when it comes to smurfs with you having smurfs on your team and getting free wins. It’s just a matter of luck more than anything and it shouldn’t affect your ability to climb out of any elo.
They seem to be very contradictive and uncertain of their own claims:
Sometimes they say ALL matches are rigged
They even claim that the matchmaker can impact your performance DIRECTLY, as in literally change your skills…
Other times they say its rigged against specific people to prevent them from climbing or falling. And that they also claim that it gives easier games to Streamers??? (Easily disproved by letting a better or worse player on a hardstruck/climbing account respectively)
They also claim that Healing, Damage, Cooldowns AND Hitboxes all get rigged and VERY frequently at that… and YET they have not been capable of showing ONE single Video evidence of any of that happening.
The only “evidence” clip of “Rigged Healing” provided by Hulk, Outside and Receipts turned out to be just them not being able to do SIMPLE maths, they were literally surprised that Lucio’s 16HPS passive heals wasn’t able heal a low HP Orisa to full HP in less than 10 seconds…
Like honestly, what even is these made up and baseless claims. Are they really that desperate to put the blame on other people and matchmaker for their own gameplay??!
If matches are rigged, why even bother trying to balance anything? Just put the worst players in team A and the best in team B to ensure a guaranteed win or lose.
If individual players are manipulated, how does the matchmaker decide which player “needs” a forced loss? And why does the matchmaker decide that 5 other people also need to lose? But somehow not as guaranteed as the first player. How does the matchmaker make sure that exactly this one chosen person loses?
And how is it possible to actually win some games that were one sided for 90% of the time and only won by some IQ300 moments? Did the matchmaker decide without further ado that the actually worse team has to win? Are these moments in any case predictable?
This discussion is similar to the question of God’s omnipotence. And is apparently just as religiously led meanwhile. With a lot of belief and little knowledge.
The simplest answer to all these questions is: The matchmaker just randomly puts 12 players of “similar” skill together in a match. The losing TEAM simply played worse than the opponent. With many big and small problems, individual mistakes, without cooperation and probably also extremely much tilt and trashtalk. Smurfing and throwing excluded.
I also don’t think you should take an L too personally.
They don’t seem to understand that it is a team game, the main way is to corporate with your team. They expect to just climb for no reason and when they dont and instead lose they scream “rigged matchmaker!” and “Bad teammates!”
I’m sorry but what you said is not what I said. You have again manipulated and altered my text, asking me to defend an altered thesis, therefore not mine. Just like you did with Cuthbert.
At this point I don’t know if you don’t read the posts of your interlocutor, or on purpose to alter. Choose you.
I think we can all agree that the matchmaker at least does try to balanced both teams to have ~50% chance of winning. If this wasn’t true, the matches would be very one sided, probably even more than quickplay which still uses MMR matchmaking to give somewhat even teams.
What I want to know however is how this matchmaker determines this 50/50. They certainly can’t predict the 50/50 based on each hero you play per role, since people can switch heroes anytime during the match.
So then that brings another concern. If I was doing well on ana previously and climbing with her, does the matchmaker now expect me to perform at ana’s level now from now on? Because there are many maps (especially long-range) and ally/enemy team compositions where baptiste just isn’t as flexible in compared to ana. So if this was the case, then I can no longer one trick baptiste anymore because of my stats on ana.
If the MMR constantly changes every 100 or so of competitive games, then perhaps I’ll eventually start being able to climb just as easily on baptiste as I do with ana. That is assuming that MMR won’t take into account ana’s stats from several seasons ago.
I think if the matchmaker is basing the 50/50 per role, in theory it would be much easier to climb by one tricking especially if you mainly want to climb with one particular hero. For example, if you want to mainly use mercy, you’re probably better off one tricking mercy and not winning any games with any other supports to get that 50/50. Because as soon as you start winning as with ana, the matchmaker might start giving you games where only strong carry potential supports like ana can win in.
TL;DR - If you want to one trick mercy and climb with her, don’t try to win games with any other support. See how that goes and report back plz. This might need to be done on a new account if the competitive matchmaker uses stats from all seasons.
I wouldn’t call them “bad”, that just provokes people for no reason. Besides, compared to players in bronze or silver, even gold players are “good”. Always a matter of point of view.
These players are just quite inattentive and too easily distracted, especially by their own emotions. With a little humor, you can draw a comparison between Jedi and Sith The Jedis stay calm and concentrated, while the Sith get tricked by their strong emotions. That’s why they nearly always lose in the end.
Forgive me but it has been explained several times, why don’t you read the text instead of responding and asking to defend unexpressed theses?
There are 12 participants, some of them may have been chosen according from the algorithm have priority of victory (for the purposes expressed in the patent, not for sportsmanship ), and the others have an instrumental function. In the next match, perhaps one of the losers has too many defeats behind him, according to the algorithm he is at risk of abandoning the title, and it becomes it to have priority, acting the others as an instrumental in this case.
I don’t think it’s helpful to have the discussion at such a level.
I’m afraid you have no idea how absurd the whole thing sounds, especially in a team game like Overwatch, where you can’t punish individual players on a team without possibly punishing 5 innocent people as well.
This is what I would call “good statistics” like accuracy and k/d. These things are indeed part of the MMR matchmaking BEFORE the match. You know, to balance the match Doesn’t always work, yeah.
I’m sorry can’t understand what you said. Why you should punish players? Is something they don’t know cause the matchmaking is automatic. Or my english made me expressed bad or you did not understand well.
If one had to lose, the other 5 would have to lose too, ok? Because the whole team loses. In a normal game, there is no individual victory.
Your thesis assumes that there is one “main character” in the whole match, perhaps two in opposite teams, to whom the whole course of the match is fixed.
That makes 10 other players minor characters. Extras. Filler material that are more or less just accessories in the story.
So the main character - no matter how good - is necessarily led to victory or defeat by the supporting characters. And in the case of a “good” player, this is achieved by the matchmaker deliberately selecting the five worst players so as not to give him a chance?
But only until he… sends what signal? That he wants to quit Overwatch? How can the matchmaker guess that ?
Have I understood that correctly?
Edit:
But how could the game recognize a “main character”? If he loses 20 games in a row, the game shouldn’t classify him as a real “threat” to punish him IN ADDITION with bad players on the team, right?
Yes, on those 12 total partecipants, maybe 3/12 have been put in the winning team for take the treat, and the others 3 on the winning team are collateral winners (instrumental). The others 6 are intrumental losers.
The bad thing is not a what I thing, or Cuthberth things, is a patent signed by blizzard. Is not a my hypothesis, this is what you can find on the patent, and what I want is make public the algorhitym to have a transparent product.
I’m here to open the pandora box, because we have the right to know what are we playing.
About main characters, is not anything I spoke about.
I’ve not made that patent, and we have not all these information. We have a patent with a fraudolent logic, signed by blizzard. If you are interested to know the complete informations you can claim, as well as me, to make the matchmaking transparent (and public).
it may be that blizzard uses a variant of this patent, for better or worse for us, we don’t know. The problem is that we have no right to know, and this mutilates the service we receive.
True. Sometimes, call outs like who to focus on can turn the tide of the fight. Just yesterday, we were against a smurf widow taking out our entire team (except me who wasn’t stupid enough to expose myself to her). Once I called out that widow is a smurf and that we just need to focus on her for ez win, it worked.
Though to be fair, I’m pretty sure one of our DPS was a smurf too and this focusing on widow wouldn’t have been possible if we had two bronze DPS who doesn’t know how to use their hero properly. Our tanks were completely useless though, since even after I kept on telling my rien NOT to go through the middle choke in MEKA Base, he continued doing so anyway (without anyone backing him up) and kept dying over and over.
Regarding this “rigging” debate, it’s crazy for anyone to deny that 50/50 doesn’t exist. This is how the matchmaker creates fair matches, by putting two teams of similar skills together.
But that doesn’t mean each and every one of those players are hard stuck bronze who will forever belong there. If the matchmaker can’t find anyone with equal skill of ana with 70% win rate, then they will likely find some other role with equal skill to create balanced team and vice versa. Which could bring it’s own issues which I won’t get into.
And people can’t call this “rigging”, since rigging by definition means giving unfair advantage to one team over another.
Now IF the matchmaker IS giving players 40/40/20 or 40/60 (which I don’t know if it does) then that’s technically can be classified as “rigging”. But IIRC the matchmaker won’t give you 40/60 all the time, but only occasionally to give you a challege (and boost your SR if you win those games). Most of the games should still be 50/50.
If this MMR based matchmaker didn’t exist, it would be even harder to one trick and climb out of bronze with low carry potential heroes like mercy. So it’s actually a good thing that this system exists. Is it perfect? No. Could it be improved? Certainly.
The Jedis stay calm and concentrated, while the Sith get tricked by their strong emotions. That’s why they nearly always lose in the end.
?