Algorithmic Handicapping is Wrong for Online Games

They do not retain players that way. Since you already paid for game, so you are no longer important. And if you actually want to continue playing, you would buy new account.

In a way, that is cause of smurf pandemic.

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Uh, no? lol.

They need players to play, or they won’t have new players coming in. They won’t sell lootboxes. They won’t have OWL viewers. They won’t have…do I need to continue?

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Hooked up players will return with new accounts anyway, inflating real sales.

Matchmaking like in Overwatch would have worked just fine in game without heroes. As it doesn’t seem to account for compatibility between heroes.

By matchmaking logic, putting together Ana player and Pharah player should have same result with putting together Mercy player and Pharah player, if they got similar MMR. But it’s not, so correct odds of winning are never calculated, due to being based on false statement.

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because there is none :smiley:

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Stuff that is totally wrong

Esports has nothing to do with the competitive system. You can go to the open division with any group of people from any ranks, if you finish well enough even a bronze team can get into contenders (in theory, but they don’t perform well enough, because they are bronze, where the matchmaker put them correctly) and from there you can get into OWL. You don’t qualify to esports based on your rank, you can be top1 on the ladder for multiple seasons and noone will scout you, you need to prove yourself good enough on open division then contenders. Therefore high level competitors, like tier1 tier2 players have nothing to fear of any ranked system changes, unlike what you said.

You either phrased this wrong or you just didn’t realize how contradictory it is.

Also naming a mode competitive doesn’t make it a sport, this is a gamemode in a videogame, which puts people on a scale from 0 to 5000 according to their performance as it’s seen by the system. I highly doubt it could be ground to investigation or to start a legal procedure for, since there’s nothing on the line and it does it’s job fairly well.

Stuff that I agree with

The one-sided matches part, which we already have (that kinda contradicts you stating that the matchmaker doesn’t work as it’s supposed to btw) . I’ll add that you can expect some standards of play from people in given ranks already: silvers will understand the concept of a shield and healing, they’ll be able to execute a basic bunker comp pretty reliably. Golds will start to use communication to implement some basic coordination into their play, plats will have a decent understanding of their characters but they’ll still be more passive than needed in many cases and their teamwork is overall poor, diamonds will be able to execute strategies somewhat reliably on a per game basis and they’re starting to grasp the teamwork part, masters where the team aspect really starts to tick and gm is where they do everything mostly well and they are the fastest to adapt to changes, some of them are usually the ones who find new techs for heroes and comps and experiment with them.

Questions
I don’t think I’ll get an answer, but I’ll still ask these.

Do you think that a person who is stuck in the middle ranks (gold-diamond) could make a GM/T500 player have a hard time if the MMR system wasn’t present?

Do you think that people in the current matchmaking system are not where they are supposed to be? If yes, how many people (excluding smurfs and throwers) have you seen who are way under their ranks?

My own two cents

In my opinion and experience the system doesn’t put people in the wrong ranks in the end, it just reduces the speed they get there, so that the match quality doesn’t suffer from someone getting placed in gold after his main in gm is banned or after completing all 5 of his placements on losses and heading to bronze because this is their first fps game.

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Most of it is disproven here…

But for those who don’t want to read just take the fact he hasn’t played for 4 years and said this…

If he’s that skilled and is knows how it all works he should be able to climb to top 500 like other players can with ease on multiple accounts or he’s wrong. There being no in between because he said himself he’s good and he claims to know how it works.

So yea he’s either a gold who’s better than every hero and every role in the games he plays that is being held down by the system… Or he’s just some guy that stopped playing looking for a scapgoat and has taken it too far.

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Suppose that tomorrow, Blizzard says “Good points, our bad. We’re eliminating MMR entirely.”

So, what’s next? How is matchmaking done? Is it 100% random? How about SR? How is that calculated? Will SR calculations take into account the skill of the various players (and, if it does, aren’t we back into secretly determining numbers based on metrics that are invisible to the players)? How do you know those results will be any better than the current system being decried?

(As a further aside, I’m not exactly sure how much weight should be given to a series of polls conducted without any underlying process to produce results that accurately reflect the player base at large, but I assume someone else covered this in one of the proceeding 150+ responses).

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I want you to take a second and appreciate the irony of your own comment, lol. I’d think an “intellectual” like you would’ve recognized that before replying.

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Nah. Pros don’t want to lose to other pros. Simple as that. They don’t want real competition. They want a bunch of doors to walk through.

Its funny how pros all complain about playing other pros. Dont you get a bunch of money to do what you? These guys already make a bunch of money playing a game. Are we seriously going to make the game easier for them?

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Not nearly as explicitly as you have (feel free to continue :innocent:) but its funny how the “poll results” are conveniently not available.

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Oh rhainsict, you’ve left me such a gem of a conversation. I really couldn’t help but LOL IRL with this one.

Imagine being so detached from reality.

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But Like Actually Though

Talk about out of touch with reality…

Ted Cruz?! Is that you homie?!

Completely and utterly incorrect.

Since Role Queue was implemented, There are 3 different boards for Top 500.

There’s no differentiation between a Rank 1 Tank at 4.6/4.7k SR, a Rank 1 DPS at 4.6/4.7k SR, or a Rank 1 Support at 4.6/4.7k SR.

If ever there was a case for false information, this would 100% be it.

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I am just amazed by all the people who believe the insanity that there is some sort of special algorithm out to force you to be at 50% win rate by making sure you win or lose your next game. One of the first things you learn (after you learn the basics of course) when it comes to creating algorithms is to omit needless complexity. For example if you can do something in one pass do it one pass and do not have 4 more passes through the data.

How that relates here is if you write an algorithm that simply finds people of similar MMR (which is of course nearly identical to your SR in ranked if you have a lot of games played) then a byproduct of that will be that you have a 50% win rate. Trying to force a 50% rate condition into the calculation is just adding additional complexity for no reason whatsoever. Any junior developer would know better than to do that.

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Yes, this is true. A lot of it is Random and luck.

But I have noticed something about the matchmaker while playing these last few years. If you win over and over, the match maker suddenly starts doing some weird stuff to you by putting you in a disadvantage. I know the ‘ping’ thing could be a little tin foil hat… but I swear it starts placing me in further away servers, which destroys my chances as I lag a bit due to high ping.

But the most common effect is basically placing you in games where your team has a huge disadvantage, assuming you should be able to carry them if you are SO good.

But that is the problem, the carry mechanic in this game these days is almost none. (almost)

Yes but performance based skill rating still prevents you from being stuck.

My old scrim coach (T500 hitscan player) could take a gold bordered account and still get 50-70 SR per win and only lose like 15 SR for a loss in 2.9k games.

Welp…. Community did it to themselves. And players like the OP, who think themselves as gods amongst insects, believe they’re Masters level players when really it’s impressive they made it to gold.

You’re a smurf (as you said). Watch 3 mins of the OPs video and tell me that his Rien play is even close to a Masters level Reinhardt….

Absolutely NO SHOT

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I didnt experience anything like that. I have been recording multiple times my progress on alts, also taking notes and sure i had terrible team mates sometimes, smurf or leaver but there was no pattern. Nothing like you say. My friend used to boost players, old hardstuck account and i watched his progress. Thats why i know all this what is OP saying is nonsense because unlike him, i have unbiased hard evidence proving him wrong. And proven several times.

If you are better than others in your rank, you will climb, period. It might take some time but its normal because of RNG. You are placed with 5 others and playing agaisnt 6 so there is a lot of space for weird things and different personalitied cousing problems :slight_smile:

I know people who were hardstuck bronze, who even did think same as op, thats system is keeping them there. Well they learned game, changed mindset, get coaching and they climbed, i can link you player who is streamer who used to be bronze and climbed from low bronze to platinum. Many players did.

Doesnt matter how long post will OP write or how well its written. Its still not true, and imagine depending so much time on this topic without any kind of evidence ever. He is so deep in this nonsense that he is beyond saving, kind of sad.

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It’s needed complexity this time. If player loses too often, they give up and stop playing; if player wins too often, they say “it’s so easy it’s boring” and also stop playing.

I think it can be unintentional result of matchmaking extrapolation. Basically, matchmaking creates match based on where you should be, if you continue like that, rather than where you currently are. And if you peaked at one match, and matchmaking extrapolated those results to create your next matches, you can end up in unbeatable game.

You are expected to show constant improvement.

That is why you rely on smurfs, to prevent matchmaking screwing you over - as 1 smurf = one less possible potato player on your side.

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Its a common misconception though.
Its more like the opposite: New accounts have a higher threshold for variance.

If you happen to hit a “good run” you will end up around 400-500 SR above your normal main account top rating. Same way, many alt accounts literally end up in the same bracket … but of course we only “hear” about those who got that “good run”.

Sample bias at its finest.

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“The true sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting something to change” -
Albert Einstein.

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