I think the issue is that people are adapting, and they’re finding that they’re forced to include her on the roster or their chance of losing grows exponentially.
I don’t agree with your “not playing with your team stance”, but even if I grant it to you, does it not strike you as a being problematic that 1 hero on the roster has that sort of impact while the other 26 do not?
No. Because this could be said of any hero. A Bastion / Tracer / Sombra / Orisa / Genji / Sym… They all have team comps that could / should be required to counter them. Having a ranged DPS isn’t a lot to ask when you’re talking about Brig. If you are running a full on dive comp on DEFENSE, I would argue that pre-Brig that could work. Now it’s hard, and I would argue it’s a good thing.
Adapt.
Literally all of the heroes you’ve mentioned aren’t viewed in the same light. You’re comparing apples to oranges. You don’t have to dramatically reform your entire team to deal with any of them individually. The same cannot be said for Brigitte, as evidenced by her 99%+ pick rate (per team) she’s currently seeing in GM.
I have friends have used her to get to Plat and dominate. It’s not just a Gold thing.
I am not seeing where you are taking Brigette in a different context except that she’s annoying at close range and using a Dive comp to DEFEND isn’t as viable as it was…
Then perhaps it’s simply best that we agree to disagree. ![:slight_smile:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=5" ":slight_smile:")
When presuppositions don’t allow for the other side’s argument to even form, it’s often best to just walk away.
I agree, except I’m not making presumptions. You’re saying it requires an entire team to counter her, and I’m saying that it doesn’t - it takes a Ranged DPS and a bit of coordination.
I don’t understand the hate for a character that requires a bit of coordination in a game that’s literally about team comps and coordination.
Have been using doomfist against her I don’t have a problem with. Her 1v1 but if team is with her yea I’m
I’m saying that her weaknesses are too easily covered by other teammates to make them relevant in the big picture, thus making the character mandatory at the highest levels of play, which is supported by statistical evidence. Furthermore, I’m asserting that being in that state constitutes a balance issue.
It has nothing to do with simple coordination, and everything to do with the game quickly becoming “play Brig or get run over”.
Yes, and she’s been released a whopping 48 hours. When Moira was released, it was like an 80% winrate for the first 4 days, and that quickly balanced out over time.
Right now people don’t know how to counter her, just like Doom, Orisa, and Moira. Once people start realizing the how-to’s, she won’t be any different than any other mildly annoying support.
This is nothing different from the initial release of ANY other character the last few seasons. It’s simple to win against opponents that are comfortable not coordinating - which is most of Comp the last few seasons. I have had little to no problems with her as a tank main myself. Even in the PTR realm, she dominated at first, and was quickly squashed by long range DPS. And that’s what will happen in comp now.
Well someone is on the right page, It’s true that these are the folks complaining.
Ya, as D.Va, I’m getting knocked out of the air by Brigitte when I go to counter Pharah. Not cool. Something needs to be done about her abilities vs. tanks.
No new hero has seen these pick rates in GM. The closest thing we have from a new hero launch when it comes to impact is Doom, and he was nerfed so heavily he spent literal months in the gutter licking his wounds.
I’d like to see her get toned back without going straight into the trash can.
People saw her on the PTR and had a month to learn her in QP already. It’s silly to think this the same as the other heroes being launched in comp, imo. Your top level players have been actively scrimming with her prior to her launching in competitive to develop tactics with and against her, and the result was unanimous - she is mandatory.
Your personal experience in lower tiers has very little meaning in the big picture. Heck, I’m quite a bit higher than you, and even my personal experience would matter very little.
What does matter, is the noticeable and worrying trends that we see for how the ladder has been impacted, which isn’t in line with other heroes at the highest levels. You’re free to contest that the data is “too new” for you to put faith in, and I’ll have no objections, but let’s not pretend she hasn’t completely overturned the entirety of the competitive scene for some pretty obvious reasons outside of the new factor.
That’s a non-issue. You’re getting outplayed on that one.
It’s not a non-issue. The intent, according to OW release video, was the counter backline DPS like Genji and Tracer; NOT tanks. She’s supposed to be support. Not defense or DPS.
She’s using a skillshot to peel you off of a hero at a distance. There’s nothing wrong with that.
If you wanna argue about the CD, I’m fine with that. But the fact that a Brigitte knocks you off your flight path while chasing a pharah is no different than you getting hooked by Roadhog.
Moira was like a 93% pick rate the first three days.
The only thing I think is midly OP, and really just annoying, is that her shield doesn’t break on Bash. If I would nerf ANYTHING, it would be that her shield has to be recharged after she bashes.
I’m not seeing where she is mandatory. She is unanimously picked because comp is largely uncooperative, and it’s easy to steamroll a team that doesn’t know how to counter her - which Is what I believe is happening. High picks rates are because she’s new, and it’s easy to delete a team that isn’t actively picking to counter her.
I agree to the extent that I believe the mindset of being willing and able to swap off a desired role to win. I am hoping that you have that same mindset and in that regard I respect your opinion and personal experience on the matter, whether I agree or not.
You are getting out played. Bottom line. RH hooking a D.Va is no different, and I would argue worse because he can pull you into a hole or off an edge.
Her pick rate per game was around 60% 44% (picked all brackets originally) at launch in GM, and her win rates were never alarming. We can still use the trend to go back and see it, since it’s been less than 6 months ago:
https://www.overbuff.com/heroes/moira/trends
I think it is unreasonable to believe that at the highest competitive ranks, people just don’t cooperate or aren’t good/knowledgeable enough to counter her. I believe this is the biggest divide in our positions.
The current mindset at the highest tiers is that everyone has to have a Brigitte and no one should swap off her. That, to me, is an issue.
But this is a large minority of the community. Most people who are going to play Brig are NOT GM. I think the disparity of our positions is largely where we are ranked. You’re using the highest level of Gameplay as an example, and I’m looking at averages. I don’t care what GM’s play, as I am not, and likely never will be a GM.
For the MAJORITY of the community, Brig is easily countered with a bit of coordination and a willingness to cooperate. I guess perhaps in the right hand with 5 other plays with perfect mechanics, she’s rightfully great in Masters and GM.Right now, the MAJORITY of the ranks have people unwilling to swap, and those are the people who are complaining.
Really enjoying the triple tank triple support meta that now exists. Also enjoy when gold players tell me a hero is fine because they can kill another gold player. FeelsS10Man
I think that’s a respectable position to take in that you’re mostly concerned with your own gameplay. The problem for me is that if we take the approach of examining something and saying that “in the middle ranks, it can be overcome with skill and teamwork, and so it’s not an issue”, then we never have any relevant balance problems for the entire game, 'cause skill, awareness, and teamwork is what is missing for most of the ladder.
To me, the easiest place to identify gameplay imbalances is in that top 1-3% where skill, awareness, and teamwork are less of a variable to work with. Not to say we have to balance the game expressly for them, but that imbalances are more apparent there than the rest of the ladder.