A hobbyist game designers rework of overwatch: Part 1

High hello I’m an AngryPuck and today I would like to break down some aspects of OW and for why they do or so not work as a whole.

HERO COUNTERS

Honestly the idea of hero specific counters as game design goal, failed the moment they decided they were going to consistently add new heroes to the game.

As not only did every new hero add a whole host of new mechanics, but in turn created an environment where the number of counters a specific hero can have would dramatically change with every release.

Ya sure this works for TF2 however that game only had to balance around 9 playable roles, with little adjustments here or their depending on weapon loadouts.

Even then their were heroes such as Torb and Sym who quite frankly failed at countering anything, AS both were designed around elements of TF2’s Engineer.

Were elements like his auto-aim turret and teleporter provided consistent utility and defense from the game flankers.

However overwatches flankers never had to worry about about these mechanics as one skipped space all together with blink and rewind while the other could simply turn torbs damage against him, while at the same time simply dash past the effective range of Sym’s turrets. Meaning that the game had no real way to counteract mobility.

This became even more problematic when Dive became a full on composition, as when people started combining abilities such as winstons bubble and d.va’s DM. they could effectively shut down what ever weaknesses they would have otherwise.

For example winston’s bubble + shield dancing made it pretty much impossible for him to be frozen by mei, while diva’s DM kept mei from using her ult or getting much ult from her alt fire. (This of course changed years down the line)

This of course was a consistent issue for years as new heroes followed that same mentality as Sombra, Orisa, Moria, and eventually brig were all designed to counter act dive to some point. most which either failed or in Sombra’s case made it even more prevalent, While brig was such an heavy handed attempt in completely that she more or less killed the comp as a whole. (At least outside of some niche dive focused maps)

This of course is still an issue to this day as heroes like sigma, was still designed to counter act the likes of bunker. But in turn created double shield in it’s wake.

And quite frankly this is just not that healthy for the game as a whole, as it dramatically swings playstyles, hero viability, and the very basics of how we interact with the game.

Yet OW has shown that their more then capable of designing heroes that don’t completely change the meta at hand. Baptiste, Ashe, wrecking ball, and echo all released and made solid additions to the cast without fundamentally changing how we interact with the game.

And blizz should not really have a hand in the meta and let it grow naturally with of course not being afraid to adjust some over/under performer heroes here or their. Ya things like the hero reworks were necessary overall, yet we really didn’t need a full shutdown of comps entirely.

Edit: My apologies forum mod

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I agree with you partially. I’m glad you pointed to the problem with flankers as a design problem because a lot of people and content creators go out of their way to neglect the inherent problem they present.

After taking everything in, it’s clear to me The Devs had a vision of how OW was supposed to unfold but the limiting factor was Player psychology - no one wants to depend on 5 other players to have a chance against a counter. From that core issue is where I think OW went downhill because the game’s original design clearly did not account for that.

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you can’t really just, get rid of counters. Some heros will always be strong against others

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Ya that is true however I’m saying to move away from purposely designed counters.

Like every hit scan will be a counter to pharah/echo. Etc Etc. However we really didn’t need say a hero that shuts downs abilities completely, or a support with a stun kill combo to counter act dive specifically. (Or at least attempt to)

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Demoknight confirmed as official 10th class.

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ahaha nice catch miscounted.

About hero counters, another problem is the fact that a hero is designed to deal with certain heroes but also can shutdown heroes that they are not counter, heroes with stun abillity is the best example.
How many time, for example, you play as Ana and you get simple killed by a flashbang+fan the hammer or by a mei that simple freeze you and HS and you could do nothing when these things was designed to deal with characters like tracer and Genji?
Now they nerfed the CC from the game and now is more hard to deal with tracer and Genji, this is one of reason Genji is strong and tracer is viable to play right now.

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Might as well be a different class, running around with a sword is so different from lobbing explosives everywhere.

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Actually this is more or less what happened to sombra, who’s hack would shutdown flankers completely however it became more or less just a tool to shutdown tanks turning them into walking hitboxes with little to protect them selves with.

So she ended becoming more of a component to dive, then she did counteract it.

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I was thinking they should make that these abillities only be affective in heroes that they are to counter but not to heroes they are not counter.
Example : Mei can freeze heroes who have high mobility but can’t freeze Ana instead it could deal a little more damage or make the enemy slow a little but it will never freeze.
I know this alone would be a huge change for the game but I think this is worth at least to try.

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I mean that is an option, however I personally would rather pull away from counters in general as many players would rather play only a handful of heroes.

and it causes issues with what the player base in general, as detailed in trashbot23 comment above.

Be it that for sombra specifically if they really wanted hack to be an anti-flanker ability in general. they could always heavily reduce the range, but make more reiliable/ harder to break. to make it more of a peel ability then it is an offensive one.

Was Orisa supposed to counteract dive?

Like, yeah, a while after her introduction bunker could act as anti-dive, but I thought that was more because she complimented Roadhog than anything. Additionally, Tracer and Genji are considered some of her stronger counters, after Lúcio.

I thought her primary function was to make Doomfist’s following introduction less problematic for main tanks. In addition to adding a much requested Rein substitute.

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I mean a cc/damage prevention ability that is fortify and the hard CC that is Halt. she was definitely made with dive/mobility heroes in mind. But everything you said was true as well.

but maybe dive resistent more so then a hard counter.

What did hold her back tho was d.va’s ability to DM Halt, making her one major tool to CC flankers or to catch tanks mid jump kind of impracticable.

9/10 issues are caused by flankers

I mean just look at paladins they nerfed the hell outta tanks, supports and even some damage heros just because people complain that flank hero were not in meta

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Eh we can’t exactly generalize it to that point, at least not in overwatch not to sure about paladins I haven’t really studied that game.

Sure the design of flankers in OW sure didn’t help much for the likes of torb and sym as mentioned above. But quite frankly their definitely not the core issue OW has had at any point.

I think the problem lies in how the OW devs try to make everything have a universal function, which is good in a game where you can’t switch heroes. Except in OW you can.

Also when you have CC that is generally worse on its intended target then others, it can be an issue.

You can make flanker counters but they actually have to be made to be FLANKER counters. A stun is effective on everyone, a cripple has a range of effectiveness.

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Funny because I think the devs originally intended torb and sym to be the flanker counters. And not McCree at least not originally.

i always wonder: when you have a comp that is utterly powerful, and then you create something that counters is, isnt that new thing automatically doomed to be even stronger? and then you create something new to counter that, and this becomes the new meta again, and so on

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Pretty much ya, In fact you can see the same thing in pokemon of all things. where new mons are made to counter meta mons that in turn just ends up replacing some other mon. Etc Etc.

And as mentioned above devs should generally stay out of the meta, specifically because they ultimately create forced meta’s in return instead of anything that actually is natural to the players.

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If you add mobility with Burst and some survivability it is deemed to cause issues specially when they’ll be placed with ones that has neither of those

Anything that hinders the fluidity movement of said mobile heros feels more oppressive in compared to others

Also balancing them is pretty difficult
They’ll either be hot trash or always good

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