Its exhausting, I’m sure you feel the same, and I apologize. It is simply difficult (to say the least) for me to move off of a solution, when its right before us.
Yes, there are costs, there are always costs, but I believe fundamentally that the game’s players are not emotionally or mentally equipped to realize the potential of the game, and that upsets me.
Btw, how would a vote even work for an even number of players?
Although I guess they could default it to 2-2-2 (or 2Flex-2-2) and if the vote deadlocks in a tie, then it stays as the default.
Fully understandable, and I wish it wasn’t coming to this. I have to believe there are solutions that don’t limit the ways we can play though. Maybe I’m wrong, but if I stop believing that there’s another way, then I’m worried I’ll just stop liking the game entirely.
Crap… I knew there had to be a glaring oversight somewhere in my proposal
AND HE COMES THROUGH WITH A SOLUTION! MVP right here folks!
Heh, so already thought about it. And realized you could just simplify it to locked Roles as the default, then vote to unlock Roles.
And instead of an interface, you could just do something like holding down the F button for 3sec as a Yes vote, to unlock roles. Then have a message about it, in text chat.
Wasn’t able to figure if 3 or 4 votes was the best number for unlock though.
Works fine for me!
Yeah I hit that snag too. Don’t want to make it too easy to outvote a solo-tank for instance, but don’t want to make it too hard if most of the team is in agreement either. Not sure who to prioritize. Part of that depends on whether we’re voting on specific team comps or 2-2-2 vs unrestricted. For instance, I think it’d be stupid to require a unanimous decision to change it specifically from 2-2-2 to 1-3-2, some sort of majority vote should be more than sufficient in that case.
Ended up figuring:
For instance:
Oh damn… I’d like to double down on my MVP comment from earlier, this was supposed to be my TED Talk, but you came prepared with visuals!
This looks great, and I love it! It allows every conceivable style of play, without really restricting anyone’s choices. You even found a solution around longer queue times, AND incentivized using LFG! Well done!
And the best part is that this system works equally well for comp as it does for quickplay. No need to devise separate systems for each mode.
I guess if I had to make a slight criticism, it would be that you can’t actually run triple dps comps in the role select modes, but this is kind of a non-issue with the custom comp option.
to be fair, players would always get the hero class they want in 2-2-2 (might require more queue time for some) but not always the team comp they want. That’s really no different than what we have now with the current team comp "no you switch!’ chicken set up.
We would lose cheesy stall options and getting annoyed at your DPS under performing and a player going +1 more DPS.
I’d argue that both are not really good for the game.
players who like to play say support on KOTH but DPS on 2CP would no longer have that option. That would suck, but maybe a player should show they can play that class role on every map to get to a given SR.
We also would lose being able to cross flex. Where a support goes tank, tank go support but again with a role lock those “I… I can’t play the support we need” would fall in SR and the problem takes care of itself.
Also tougher to one trick if the team can’t do huge team comp switches to cover for that player.
Yeah we lose some stuff with 2-2-2 locked, but most of it isn’t anything that is a real positive to the game. The few that are, losing them is a small price to play for all the crud locked 2-2-2 removes.
that’s really cool looking but over looks the idea of locked 2-2-2 is also to balance the game AROUND 2-2-2 being locked.
Like Brig might need buffs to be a support in 2-2-2 and Lucio might get all of his speed boost back. Maybe Orisa gets a fire rate bump again to work as +1 more DPS vs pharah.
You can’t have decent 2-2-2 balance and then non-2-2-2 game play at the same time. It’s like one or the other.
That’s interesting. We actually seem to agree on most of the issues, just not on how we prioritize them. A nice change of pace from disagreeing on the issues themselves.
oh right… that’s why my proposal set 2-2-2 as a starting default, in the hopes that that would be enough to promote the kind of balancing this game needs.
I truly hope you’re wrong there, because if you’re right then it means that I have to die on my non-2-2-2 hill, and I’d really rather find a compromise.
Well, if they really need to they could do this idea with a maximum of 2 Healers per team.
Tanks aren’t yet a problem, but I should see they could be, if they added another Rein/Orisa type tank.
That’s another thing. Before I think 2-2-2 and role queue can be fair, we really need to have more variety of tanks and supports (or at least just more in general). With dps you have a ton of options if your current pick isn’t working, but there’s not as much flexibility for tanks and supports. I love Rein, but i’d get sick of having to play him every single game.
Too long didn’t read, but:
If roles are forced and you HAVE to select your role, no. Bad idea.
If the roles are randomly forced (you played a DPS last match, so now you are prevented from playing a DPS next match and are forced to play a tank or support) BEST IDEA.
Well, a buff to Orisa and a Roadhog would fix that.
TLDR: You don’t have to select your role, and you can change roles as long as the team comp allows it. The allowed number of each role is set, unless changed with a vote, but every player is free to pick any character until the role limits are reached.
So if the team voted on 3 tanks, 2 supports, and 1 dps, as soon as someone picks a dps, that role gets grayed out for everyone else unless that person switches off.
Buffing the current tanks isn’t enough. Tanks and supports each have only half the number of characters as the dps category, no matter how you look at it we need more options to keep it fair for non-dps players
the 2-2-2 locked vibe puts a lot of faith in the balance team being able to rework the game into a 2-2-2 structure that works better than what we have now.
A game that’s a bit of a mess, due to the same balance team we think is going to bail us out with a 2-2-2 rework.
It’s like rehiring the contractors to fix what they did not fix the first 10 times they where out to fix it. To be fair, it’s not easy to balance around tons of team comps, 30 heroes, a 500 to 5000 SR range and a pro league. So yeah, odd are 2-2-2 still has huge issues and all of us acting like it fixes the game instantly, are wrong.
I still suspect we see nothing change, being nothing has to change. OWL make money, teams seem happy with money from cross marketing deals with other companies. Overwatch is becoming about the licenses agreement money from the game world with Lego, Nerf etc and not the game play.
It’s just the reality of the market.
Well put. Maybe they’ll surprise us? IF they end up forcing a locked 2-2-2, they’d better be able to at least actually balance the damn game. If they take away my player freedom and don’t even provide a better game experience in the process, I’ll probably quit.
Yeah, and I still hate that, but I guess there isn’t much I can do about it…
without role queue 2-2-2 doesn’t even accomplish it’s main goal of getting more players to play the role they want, people will still auto lock and people will be forced on roles they don’t want/are bad at.
At the pro level nothing will change at all because they’ll unlock 2-2-2 and run what they already are.
As I’ve said before, I don’t really care what the pros do, as long as I have the option of doing something different.
As I’ve also said before, role queue has its own problems that don’t specifically pertain to the 2-2-2 comp. Namely, “flex” as a dump category for dps mains to get quicker games, and not being able to switch roles in the middle of a game. Yeah I may want to tank when I start looking for a game, but once the game begins I might think i’d be better off healing, and I need to be free to make that switch.
People talk 2-2-2 but there are 4 roles to choose from, dps, defenders, tanks, and support