A compromise on 2-2-2: put it to a vote

If you’ve seen any of my comments here in the last couple weeks, you probably know how vehemently opposed I am to the idea of enforcing a 2-2-2 comp and implementing a mandatory role queue. I do not think role queue will actually solve the issues that it’s advocates want it for, and I do not believe that 2-2-2 is the only valid comp.

I agree that it tends to be the better comp, however. I hate solo-healing, I hate solo-tanking, and I really hate having to pick between the two. Don’t really have a problem with triple support and/or triple tank, but I can understand why a lot of people disagree. I still don’t really want to touch role queue because I firmly believe in the benefit of being able to swap classes mid-game if the role you start with doesn’t work out, but I’d like to propose a compromise on the 2-2-2 part:

PART 1:
When you first arrive at the character select screen, 2-2-2 is established by default. For now let’s assume that it’s a first-come-first-served scenario, and that a category gets grayed out when 2 heroes are selected from it. This way if I’m playing dps but it’s going poorly, I can swap with a tank or support if they agree to the switch, nobody is locked into a role but a balanced comp is necessary.

PART 2:
Like I said before, I believe that other team comps can be viable, and that it would be wrong to render more creative team comps impossible. At any point on the hero select screen, both before and during the match, players can vote to lift the 2-2-2 restriction. I don’t know or frankly care whether they have to vote on specific alternative comps, or if the choice would be between 2-2-2 and “flex” (which is what I’m calling what we have now, where any comp is possible). If the team votes in favor of lifting the restriction, the game either switches to the voted-upon comp (say, 1-3-2 for instance), or simply opens up the whole roster for free choice. Everyone would have to vote (it could take the form of a pop-up where you press y/n, it could be something on the stat screen, don’t really care), and I haven’t decided yet what kind of outcome would be needed to ensure the vote passes. A unanimous decision would of course be ideal, but that might be difficult, especially if they have to vote on specific comps. A simple 4-2 majority might make it too easy for dps to overrule solo tanks/healers. I think 5-1 might be safe because it prevents all but the worst possible disagreement, which would most likely manifest as 5 dps and 1 objector who gets stuck with choosing between solo heal and solo tank. But I’m not as worried about quintuple dps as I am about quad dps, so I think it might be safe to set approval at a 5/6 minimum.

This system allows for a default comp of 2-2-2, which would aid the devs in balancing the game and also ensure more balanced comps (mitigating the onslaught of both goats AND solo tanks/supports), while also allowing people to switch roles if needed, and leaving in place an option to run more creative comps if a majority of the team agrees to it.

Thoughts?

2 Likes

So far, I think 2AnyHero-2Tank-2Heal, with a maximum of 2Healers per team might be best.

3 Likes

It’s not a bad idea, I just don’t really want to give tanks and supports too much priority over dps. That’s how we get goats, which I personally don’t have a problem with, but I want to give dps an equally fair place at the table.

2 Likes

Can’t have GOATs without 3Healers.

Right, but if you already have two tanks and two supports, and you don’t require two dps, it’s easy to get one more tank and one more support.

I’d still rather not restrict anything at all, but a lot of people don’t like that idea. Under my proposal, if people want to run goats then it’s easy for them to do it, but only if more than 2/3s of the team agree to it. At least at the start no role gets left out, but everyone has the power to shift the balance so long as the team agrees.

Na no maximum, just 2 tanks 2 healers and 2 what ever the … its gonne be 2 dds…

Admittedly, I don’t think my proposal does much for the fed-up flex players who resign themselves to main tank / heal because of dps instalock. But I don’t have a solution to that unless I cross the role queue threshold, which I am very reluctant to do.

One of the main reason why people want 2-2-2 is because they dont want to lose on the selection screen.

How about this?

When the matchmaker finds enough players and puts them into teams it also tosses a coin.

Whichever team wins that coin toss can make their team first and get locked into those roles. 2-2-2, 3-3, 1-4-1 whatever they choose it stays that way.

The other team after the previous finished picking heroes are now also locked into the previous teams role setup. If they gone 1-4-1 this team too has to work with that.

It seems to be that most games go one of two ways: mostly dps, or no dps at all. I’m trying to find a happy medium between the two, while also giving teams the option to pursue either extreme so long as everyone’s on board with it

the current system is fine and i am completely satisfied

(barring my own team swiching to 6 dps just to spite each other)

4dps to 5 dps is reasonable but 6 is suboptimal imo

Now see I can’t work with that because I hate the idea of being locked into a role. I play tank and support mostly, some days I go into a game thinking I’m in a tank mood but it goes poorly. I want to be able to switch to support.

Other days I want to play dps just for a round or two (quickplay, I don’t jeopardize my teams in comp). I’ll try that out for a bit, but if it’s not working and I can help our team by switching roles, how is it fair to any of us for me to be trapped on a role I can’t perform well on?

My opinion on the matter is that if Blizzard is going to balance with 2-2-2 in mind then they shouldn’t be allowing non-2-2-2 comps.

It’s maybe not as much fun and offers less variety but game balance is always going to be a whirlwind until there is some consistency between their balance ideology and gameplay.

Instead of only 2-2-2, I prefer the options of:

  • 2Damage-2Tank-2Healer
  • 1Damage-3Tank-2Healer
  • 0Damage-4Tank-2Healer

I would honestly rather have no balance than lose the variety offered by creative team comps.

And i woud like to add 0/3/3 1/2/3 and all other comps thet need 3 supps

How about if we keep it flex?
The amount of roles to be taken is locked down but everybody can choose what they want.

Unless the enemy teams go with 5 X and 1 Y compositions, but again the goal is fair win chances.

Why?

Those comps seem very difficult to balance, and boring to watch in eSports.

And we don’t have the time or resources to sacrifice content/features, and instead focus on balancing those.

No. That completely nullifies the reason for 2-2-2 dmg aren’t being played and role stacking is a problem. If tank and support are locked to their roles then so should damage.

I don’t see any reasoning for that.

Because its stupid to sacrifice comps just because some find them boring to watch…

1 Like