3 of the 4 highest win rate DPS are the lowest skill heroes

General Discussion
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In PC Comp, the last 30 days, the DPS with by FAR the highest win rates are Torb and Sym, yet they take the least amount of skill in the game. People looooovvvveee to pretend that turrets do nothing, “they’re just stationary”, blah… Dude, it’s AI. It’s not even a skill, it’s the most skilless way to do damage. BUT, they win. Turrets win. Sorryyy, turrets win and the numbers prove it. Over and over and over, every month.

And guess what else wins?? This a SHOCKER!!! Mei’s Self-healing 250 HP Immortality ability. I wonder why that is :thinking:

In GM PC Comp, Sym, Torb, Mei are top 3 with 55% win rate. You hear allllll of these people whining about how GM is loaded with Plats right now… How do you think people climb? They climb simply by selecting the hero that wins 55% of the time. That’s it, select and climb, select and climb.

The numbers literally prove what I’m saying.

OW rewards the lowest-skill heroes that take the least amount of practice with extra HP, self-healing, turrets, armor, all kinds of stuff. It’s ridiculous. Don’t use a hero like Tracer, Ashe, Genji, that require 1000 hours of practice in order to compete… Just pick the super easy, pampered skill-free heroes and you are guaranteed to climb.

It’s like the balance team WANTS dps players to stop “practicing” their heroes. Like they don’t want players to “master” hero abilities. I think they just wanna turn OW2 into a chess match.

Personally, I will never use a turret. I’d be so embarrassed to use a turret, no way it’s ever happening. I’d feel like a cheater simply because I’m in no way earning my damage. And I absolutely cannot have fun playing OW using a hero like Reaper, like what? You can “practice” Reaper for literally 1 hour and have him MASTERED to the best of your ability. Nothing about Reaper requires “practice”. You won’t win using him if you don’t have good game sense, positioning, etc, but that’s the same for literally every hero, that requires practice playing OW, but not playing Reaper specifically.

Mei, same thing, why, bc she just goes totally immortal anytime she wants for 5 seconds… So if she’s avoiding a Dva bomb, or any other ult in the game, she does’t have to “time it”. It’s 5 seconds and it’s not even an ult. I mean, at least Lamp has a 26s cooldown, but Mei’s is a 12s cooldown AND it can’t be destroyed AND it self-heals AND she has 250hp.

No wonder SYM, TORB, MEI are literally dominating Overwatch 2…

Give Ashe self-heal, give Tracer 250 HP, give Widow 250 HP… noooooo, why? Bc a lot of players PRACTICE those heroes for 100’s or 1000’s of hours and if you pampered those heroes with gobs of extra HP and turrets and armor, they would beat Syms, Torbs, Mei every match.

I’m not saying to make Sym, Torb, Mei bad, I’m simply saying at LEAST force players to PRACTICE those heroes in order for they to have a 55% win rate. Stop babying the people who practice the least.

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I mean they wouldn’t be winning if you guys in low elo could actually aim…

Who wins 1v1 Widow or sym? Widow.

Anyway you can tell you’re terrible at the game because you label all these heroes as low skill.

Good mei players have high game awareness, needing to track ally and enemy ultimates. She also needs good general awareness of the fight… You can body block with iceblock and use it as a pseudo icewall and everything. Also aiming consistantly on projectile is harder than aiming on hitscan…

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Niche heroes usually have a very high win rate while having low pick rate. It s really nothing new.

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The higher you climb on ladder the more Sym and Torb become useless as better DPS players counter the hell out of them.

Sym, Torb, and Bastion are noob QP stompers. That’s it.

Any decent sniper, tank, Sombra, or even Pharah flat out rain hell on them.

Mei takes a lot of skill.

Well all the heroes including Sym take high skill and map knowledge to get consistent value.

If you believe you will go undefeated top 500 with those heroes go on do so.

The ones that climb that high with them got tons of hours and years learning those heroes.

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if you think reaper takes 1h just to be the best then you don’t understand how reaper works…if you are so good then go gm reaper winning every game where people who play reaper have problems because it’s too easy to counter…same applies to mei if it’s so easy then hit with the right button every shot etc
what you don’t understand is that “low skill” characters are not as low skill as you think
widow is easier than reaper unless you don’t understand what sniper is
apart from the fact that tracer is currently op and reaper only works if there is a proper team
honestly, characters that require “a lot of skill” are much easier to use than those “low skill” characters if you know how to play because e.g. hanzo for me it’s much easier to play than reaper

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Exactly what I was gonna say.

I’ll elaborate a bit on the above though.

The win rate at GM reflects the fact that they aren’t played much, and those that do play them almost always play them exclusively and therefore to a ridiculously high standard. Nothing at all to do with them being ‘easy’ or ‘low skill heroes’.

A sign of a problematic hero would be a super high win rate, and everyone in T500 having them as one of their top played heroes. A good example was Sojourn when OW2 first came out. Ridiculous win rate, and every single icon in T500 was a Sojourn.

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Oh, don’t worry, I expected people like you to come here and try to make the conversation about me and use personal insults. That’s always what people do when they can’t come up with any kind of logical or reasonable comment. This discussion isn’t meant for you.

In a 5v5 game where two DPS players on each team are using several heroes per match, there is no such thing as “niche” hero. The lowest picked heroes still are used almost every single match.

Mei takes skill to land shots, yes, and every single hero in the game requires map knowlege, game sense, etc. In order to climb to the highest ranks, I do agree, you have to be REALLY GOOD at OW, period. I’m not arguing that at all.

I’m simply saying that some heroes abilities require almost no practice to master, and some heroes abilities are outright babying those heroes. That doesn’t mean those players don’t need to play a lot of OW to climb to the higher ranks, and if I made it sound otherwise, I was wrong about that.

But I do believe that people are climbing a lot easier by picking the pampered heroes than normal. Not like unlimited climbing right on up the ranks, but it makes a noticeable difference enough for people to be complaining about the ranks being inflated right now.

You see, the matches I play in, in the lower ranks, the only reason that Sym’s ONLY have a 55% win rate is because when one team goes Sym, so does the other… and you can’t have 2 Syms winning the same match. If you weren’t able to pick Sym when the other team does, I think Sym’s win rate would be much, much, much higher than 55%, at least in Plat and below.

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Alright, what’s a counter to hypermobility that is “high skill”. Because unless you can come up with something better, Tracer will just have to deal with turrets.

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Are they not the counters to flanking, which is the most common style of play?

You would expect them to have high win rates no? If they did not, then they wouldn’t be balanced.

MORE hypermobility!!! But people got upset when Mercy had that.

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See, this isn’t my point. I’m not saying that there shouldn’t be counters to hyper-mobility or anything else. I’m saying that in ORDER to counter hyper-mobility, you should have to PRACTICE… a LOT. Not place a turret with a button and let it do all the work for you.

I don’t follow your logic. I mean, personally, I’d expect flankers to have higher win rates actually, but I’m NOT saying flankers SHOULD have higher win rates. I’m just saying my guess would be that flankers would have higher win rates… But to answer you question, no, it’s not balanced if either of them have higher win rates. To me, the highest win rates should go to the people who practice their heroes the most, and therefore, the most “practiced” heroes would probably end of having higher win rates for that reason alone.

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If the flankers are being constantly played. You would expect the counters to them to have high win rates, because, you know, they are up against things they counter all day long right?

If flankers had the higher win rates than their counters, WHEN they are being played all the time, it would mean the counters didn’t work.

That can only happen if all heroes have an equal chance to fight all heroes. But that isn’t the case. So, you have counters.

Those counters should work.

The problem is high skill counters to hypermobility don’t work, because if they require aim, and are strong enough to counter someone who is hard to hit, they wreck everyone else.

The issue is you can’t build a high skill counter, without wrecking the rest of the game.

Take Moira. Say you made her beam tighter, and higher damage, so it did the same average damage per second to the mobility heroes… (she would miss more, BUT it did higher damage to get to the same result) - all that you have really done is increase her damage vs non mobility heroes.

The base issue is “mobility counters aim” → so any anti mobility power has to be low aim, OR it will wreak non mobility heroes.

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I don’t think top 500 dps players would switch through an entire roster to counter. Niche heroes are all viable, but they are still very niche.

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And how would that look?

But it’s okay to have turrets because there are other elements of Sym and Torb’s kits that have skill expression. For example, landing projectiles on enemies outside of short range.

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Exactly, there isn’t a good answer there. If you could have one, then we wouldn’t have so many issues with hypermobility causing game issues.

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Can’t figure out how this makes sense🤔

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It could make sense if you change it to say…

IT FEELS LIKE The lowest picked heroes still are used almost every single match to those who they counter.

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Most people sleep on Torb, Sym and Mei. They’re incredibly good with almost overloaded kits. But people don’t like playing them, so the ones that do inflate the winrate. Seagull constantly say in his streams that these 3 heroes are good but they require more than just “aiming at heads” to win so most people default to heroes like Cass, Widow and Hanzo that are easy to understand what to do with. Tracer is the exception I guess.

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ive noticed ow2 players land a lot more than in ow1, even gms didnt recommend mei in ow1 because of her icicles.

i get shot in the air consistently by mei now.

shes always been easy imo because she doesnt require aim more so than muscle memory.

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True, it does FEEL like that. But, if there are 4 dps players and each of them use 2-3 heroes in a match, that covers like 10 heroes or so, out of 17, minus duplicates. So it’s probably like every other match you still see every hero.

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A game where the 2 DPS on both sides picks overwhelmingly the same 4 Heroes every frigging match (my normal 19/20 matchup has:1 Hanzo, 2 Genji, 3 Widowmaker, 4 Tracer), is a dead unbalanced game with very niche heroes.

Especially heroes like Genji are more problematic because of their high pick and high winrate.

So stop being a liar and l2p.

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