There’s 2 types of counter heros in ow2 we have natural and made counter heros. A example of a natural counter is pharah to hitscan its just a counter due to the way the hero is played the hit scan hero were no made to counter pharah it just happened. Then we have in my opinion the worst kind of counter hero and thats the made to counter such as kiriko to ana. The problem with this way of countering is you have one option and the heros whole purpose fells like you only are playing to counter one specific thing like purple the problem with this is that it doesnt fit the underlying problem of in this case anti heal it just sticks a bandage on the problem and acts like the broken bone is all better. Personly i think we need to stop with made cointer heros like kiriko.
I’d argue it’s all hero counters.
It’s just a question of how widely the counterplay is spread between heroes.
If every hero has a team cleanse, then Kiriko having a cleanse wouldn’t be that unique.
I can agree with that but hte problem still is the are making hero counter specific heros to fix a problem they made. Like purple
Well there’s an easy way to add some “generic counterplay” for Tanks to AntiNade and Discord.
Ya we did this and it made him insanely broken.
Or we can make it not a f you support you get no healing and make it 50% heal reduction.
Thats still alot of extra damage from a full team he needs a cool down or to have it loose effectiveness the longer its on a target.
The problem is that you have status effects like Anti heal, burn, etc. These initially start on just a couple of heroes so any counter is a counter to that hero. And the counters also start limited to a new hero. But ideally you have multiple heroes that can apply the status and multiple that can cleanse it.
That is if the status is healthy for the game in the first place. Neither Ana nor Kiriko are bad for the game based on anti or suzu necessarily. It’s a matter of balance. I would say that Sleep Dart on Ana is bad for the game now specifically because it’s mostly used on the tank and there’s only one. I’d say the same for Zen’s discord orb for the same reason.
I played Ball the other day and just about every dive was Sombra hack immediately followed by anti nade and sleep. It can make some heroes virtually unplayable. But does that mean it doesn’t belong in the game at all?
The reason the other dots aren’t a problem is the can be cleansed with a health pack or healed through. Purple cant be and she was advertised as anti ana.
Im nkt talking about belonging im talking about when making a hero form the ground up sombra was not made to counter ball like kiriko is made to counter ana and queen
d.va can counter pharah if positioning is correct as if d.va is in meka and gets to close to pharah and pharah fires the blast kills pharah as she is vulnerable to her own kit
Agreed but thats not the point was dva made to counter pharah
i think she was designed to counter alot of heroes like in ow2 you can hear her say let me take the hits (i cant remember the beginning part)
I don’t think Kiriko was specifically made just to counter Ana though. She was made to provide a cleanse to all DOT effects. Which includes anti, but anti is also used by JQ. Plus the temporary invulnerability was meant to be an alternative to Baps lamp. I think LW grip is kinda the same type of thing here a save ability.
She was marketed that way 100%.
And we have that its called helaing as well as hp packs. Purple is the only thing that hard counters purple.
Yes bht thats an ult thays a different thing and queen was balanced around having kiriko which was also dumb.
I think its more ment to counter bad positioning which counter players not heros
It can be used to counter bad positioning. But it can also save someone who isn’t necessarily positioned wrong but is getting focused or flanked.
Ya nad thats a does that counter a single hero no it counters a play style like hit scans to pharah play style determines that counter not ow this hero is the only one that can rmekve anti heal on every one in the group at once and thats what they are for