Simply wondering whether an additional dps slot, a team size of 7, would be effective in countering balance changes and also DPS queue times?
It brings in some cons as in there is higher potential for combos to go off which may seem oppressive. A possible solution would be to decrease ult generation maybe and/or increase the time a match goes for, either by increasing the time baseline for payload or hybrid maps, or reducing the production rate of king of the hill maps.
Thoughts maybe?
I think one of the problems would be map/play area size. Adding one more person would crowd the space a lot more than a lot of people realize in my opinion.
The maps have been designed with 6 players in mind, now add an extra 2 in there, 1 for each team, and even without Ults it would seem more chaotic and less strategic.
My 2 cents;)
I see this being an issue in choke points or in small rooms, but nowhere else really. For example look at Junkertown wide open up until 3rd point. Also with the entirety of every map open from the beginning (no parts of the MAP unlock as you progress), means the team could have extended fights. Supports could have a dps protecting from flanks while 2 dps and 2 tanks push their healers.
In my mind the situation would be more a battle stretched out from backline to backline, instead of a giant deathball fighting on a singular point.
If teams employed a deathball strat, get a mei/junk, widow and hanzo as your dps 3 for example. Sure they can deathballs, but then get picked off by snipers they cant even reach while mei or junk slows them down.
I see where you’re coming from, but most maps do have chokes and/or areas where the teams are meant to come together.
I do like the idea of backline to backline instead of deathballs but I don’t think our current maps would be ideal.
Maybe test a new arcade mode, with larger teams, with maps designed around that idea. Triangular maps with 3 control points for example. If it’s well received it could be put in as a separate comp mode.
But then we’re splitting the player base, although the option would be nice.
This would never happen. The game isn’t balanced around having this many players. There would be more engagements on average, a larger healthpool per team, more people dying, which means more frequent ults as well as more diverse ults per match, which further means that snowballing and stalling would become significantly larger issues.
Most of the characters in the roster would need to be reworked. Shields would likely break far too fast, and any healer that can’t burst heal would probably stop being played unless they have a strong defensive ult. Either tanks and supports strength would need to be increased across the board, or DPS would need to be decreased. This wouldn’t make the game more enjoyable for anyone.
This is only a partial solution (more of a bandaid) to the queue problems, but an enormous problem for balance and game-pace.
There are 6 roles and a team has 6 slots.
What role would be the 7th slot? If you need a 7h this means one is not doing its job. And you need another playing helping in that role?
In most cases the dps role is played by people only wanting to play one role and not switching even if the other dps already doing that job (mostly main dps). Mostly both refuse to play the role as flex dps. So like the same if you have 2 off tanks or 2 off healers. This sucks.
But will it be solved with a 3th dps? I think we will see in most cases 3 main dps and 0 flex dps.
So i rather have 6 enforced roles(penalized when to less stats for that role). And a teaching mode that learns players how to play each role. With every role having it own stats and a system comparing these stats to see how well you did (did he throw? ) With a rotation system for none 6 stacks. (dps only players can find a team/6stack)
Those aren’t really roles, at least not in ladder and not the way you use them. DPS are generally divided into Hitscan, projectile, and shield-break/spam. In OWL they have flex DPS players, but that mostly means projectile players that sometimes have to go Mei or Doomfist instead of Genji. None of these are really strict “roles” like we have with Tank/Supp though.
The DPS in a comp largely depends on the meta and both team’s respective comps, as well as the map. There are no set roles that DPS play - if the enemy team has a Pharah you might run hitscan. If your team wants to bunker you might find it viable to run Bastion. So on and so forth.
it wouldnt matter.
supply / demand has shown poeple want dps even for price of 15min.
My bet is it wouldnt change a thing cz nobody wants to play tank and everybody even supports wants to just try dps for like 50% of time.
Jeff scammed me.
He said average Joe cant handle long que so dps will get 3-6min waits.
I was mentally ready for 6+.
But not for 15min.
My playtime dropped from 50h per season to 5h.
And that is the problem? Why not? Especially in lower ranks
If a team keeps getting destroyed by one player (who is at the moment mostly only be counter-able by dps heroes), why not let at least one of the players play something that is good against that hero?
A sombra can completely stop a doomfist when your team plays close together, does not matter who good he is. Every dive of him he first have to think about where is the sombra, he still with his team? And most of the time he had to switch off.
In the first few seasons, when someone played pharah, players switched to hitscans to counter her. Only a few season after the option to ignore became being used. Current meta in upper ranks and even OWL is mirror match up.
If your reaper destroys everyone the enemy reaper is probably doing the same thing. But in lower ranks counter picking is still very useful. And a match is in most cased been carried by one good player, usually a one trick. Countering them is very powerful in lower ranks.
What does counter-picking have to do with anything that I said?
To clarify, “flexing” is not the same thing as a role “flex DPS”. There is no such thing as “main DPS” or “flex DPS”, if you flex that just means you swap to counter. That has nothing to do with what I said, or even what your initial comment was about.
You seem to be confusing terms with “main”, “flex”, “role”, “hero”, and “one-trick”. I’m not exactly sure what you’re getting at.
Flex dps role means playing(able to play) what is most needed. This is in most cases these days, in lower ranks a counter pick to a good doomfist or a reaper destroying your team.
There is no such thing as a “flex DPS role”. You play DPS, and either the DPS flex or they don’t. That isn’t the same thing as “Off-tank”, or “Main healer”. They’re very different.
There is.
OWL team have flex dps players. and main dps players.
Carpe is a main dps (specialist in a few heroes)
EQO is Philadelphia Fusion flex dps (probably one of the best OWL has)
Just look at OWL rosters. They will have flex dps players and main dps.
You think carpe will switch to a symetra when they decide to try to use a teleport?
NO EQO will. Or a bastion etc…
And look at weaker teams , playing against someone like carpe. Their flex dps will be hard focusing carpe, playing whatever is best to achieve this.
Correct. I addressed that already. That is in OWL, not ladder. We have completely different terms from OWL. You’re also not using them correctly. Main DPS are just hitscan players in OWL. Flex dps are often just projectile players - sometimes they swap to Doom. This was covered.
During GOATS the main DPS was often playing Zarya. The flex DPS played Brig. You aren’t using the terms correctly, and you shouldn’t be using them in comp at all.
Yes, he would. Not for a one-off TP, but if that was meta. For the same reason he swapped to Zarya during GOATS.
… Wonder with current meta, if main dps will be playing a lot of hitscan. I think their main dps will be playing hanzo while their flex is playing mei.
I think lots of main dps players of teams have been practicing lots of/only hanzo last month. While players like EQO played lots more different heroes during practice/training.
I very highly doubt that. The meta is currently in potential flux and pro players aren’t the kind to hedge bets on inconsistent picks like Mei, and force an entire team refocus to learn new heroes. It happens, but it isn’t particularly common.
We’re most likely going to see double sniper in OWL. Mei will likely only be an occasional pick. Main DPS will be playing a lot of Widow again. OWL isn’t ladder, they don’t pick heroes based off of what the forums or YourOverwatch says is meta.
We will see.
I think mei is an important part of the high sustain setups that are strong these days. Walls and freeze decrease a lot of incoming damage.
Not sure if hanzo is played by all teams. But next to a low damage hero like mei you need a more damage type hero. So even with teams with very good widows i wonder if they going to play them. But instead of hanzo maybe heroes like pharah are played. Maybe then some players will feel like they can swap back to widow. But i think most will be playing hanzo + mei, just like contenders.
But current ptr patch will be played… everything can change. Even dva and dive.
Regardless, this has nothing to do with the original topic.
Agree, still think there should be 6 roles and not 5…
Even if this is less needed the last few seasons, with all the low skill meta’s.
These days teams better setup more flexible players instead of specialists.
Since meta picks are mostly low skill heroes.
Mei is the least flexible (almost always played), but saying mei is a main dps hero…
Kinda true. We can use that convo to look at hero balancing and how it may impact a 7v7 instead of a 6v6 also, someone previously mentioned thatd be a con which is true.
More on the original post, maybe the idea isn’t feasible because of how much changes would have to be made for individual heroes.
Could someone outline for me which particular heroes they think would be broken in a 7v7 whereas they arent 6v6?