Except you just failed with that staement as OW league which is considered something like olympics doesnt use matchmaker.
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Except, that’s exactly the problem you and anyone else will not admit.
Provided it is a matchmaker, or a qualification round. Any tampering with performance or outcome is the de facto definition of rigged.
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They are giving both teams same chance to win, how else would like like to match players?
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You see, your logic isn’t holding together here.
You don’t “give” anyone anything in terms of competition. Player skill decides that. That is what ranks are for. That is what weight classes are for. That is what male/female divisions are for.
Competition participants of similar rank compete to determine skill and improve their rank. And those that fall behind receive a reduction in rank. In reality, there is no such thing as a 50/50 chance to win. Unless you rig the game. Or if you’re talking about a coin toss.
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So is box and MMA rigged too because they are matching participants from same weight category right?
Ok nice, but you didnt answer my question so I will ask again:
How else would like like to match players? And dont just use generaly statements which are really not saying anything, give me real example of how would system match players in games.
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You literally don’t get it.
Weight classes in MMA are similar to rank classes in Overwatch, and chiefly what the SR system is supposed to emulate. All of the shady stuff comes from the MMR system, which you don’t understand.
As such, people of the same or similar rank (or SR) should always play together. Yet what I see are games where people 500+/- in difference play in the same games.
You protest the idea of two different weight classes fighting in MMA, yet when it happens in OW it is forgiven? It’s somehow the individual’s fault they were placed with weaker or stronger players outside their play rank?
This is by far the simplest question on this forum.
Match players by SR. Not MMR.
– It’s really that simple. –
And, just to elaborate a bit on that note,
Players should be matched within 100+/- of their current SR. A Gold player at 2100 should be matched with anyone in the range of 2000-2200 SR. Regardless of performance. Regardless of what system “thinks” their strengths are.
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Honestly at this point, let’s call it what it is, speculation on both sides. The only way to definitively come up with any conclusion is them doing some analytics.
The fact we haven’t seen an info graph about how fair / or unfair games are is because it’s probably NOT what they want to display. Here it’s guilty until proven innocent-
zax u can’t defend how sometimes games are super lopsided why can someone just get a bad streak of steamrolls? Why is that so unimaginable?
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Dead on OP. It gets a bit rediculous this system that everyone keeps praising,
Ok, now you match players by SR, do you still have problem with 50/50 games. I though your issue is with 50/50 chance, removing MMR and using SR doesnt solve anything in that regard. You will still have 50/50.
Thats nice on paper, not possible in reality as there isnt big player base enough and making rules to match players who are only very close would have huge impact on queue times.
So your SR system would be pretty much the same, probably less acurate than MMR system because bad games would have a lot bigger impact to your SR when others are throwing your game. MMR is like a failsave which is correcting your place on ladder based on your performance. Yu would not have it in only SR system.
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You couldn’t possibly be more wrong.
You’d literally look at the player base. Find all players within your SR rank. Want to bet there’s more than 12? Filter those with the best/most acceptable latency.
All of this can be done in milliseconds. At worst, a few seconds. Actually, it would be faster than QP because the ranking is already done.
Accurate? With regards to what, exactly? Player performance? APM? RPM? KDR? Utility? Win/Loss ratio?
When player skill is represented by the de facto ranking system - literally this, it is a measure of skill - player skill is accurately represented by rank.
There is nothing to be “accurate” about, except that players of the same rank play with players of the same rank. This is becoming repetitive. The logic is genuinely this simple.
There’s no hidden system, no hidden things to adjust for “accuracy”, and no hidden factors to determine who plays with who.
All of this, and we haven’t yet progressed our discussion to technical specifics, such as measuring “player performance” and what to do about leavers and throwers. We’re not there yet. But soon.
When you force a 50/50 chance to win, you rig the system. Case and point.
In any other competitive scene, this would be ludicrous to even suggest. You’ve already contradicted yourself with relating weight classes in MMA to SR in OW. You couldn’t understand how putting Olympic athletes at a deliberate disadvantage to force a 50/50 outcome / chance to win is bad.
Messing with the matchmaker, by placing bets on who will win and stacking odds against the players, is gambling and rigging the game to be as unfair as possible.
Without further contest, and needless to say, the game would benefit greatly by simply matching players with others from the same SR without any statistical meddling from MMR. I cannot be more concise than this.
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100% forced bacon streaks.
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On every single player on your team and on the enemy team:
- Wrong mindset (goals, ego, etc.)
- Inconsistency
- Having a bad day (health issues, unfortunate rl events)
- Distraction outside of the game
- Play a hero that isn’t your best
- Trying something new that doesn’t work right away
- Bad luck
- Wrong analysis
- Miscommunication
It even happens that all these things occur at once and you loose a lot of SR during a few days pushing you down really hard. And realizing that you loose alot brings new conditions that are even more impactful. Like feeling bad about the loss and what comes with it.
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I just can not fathom why people are so enamoured with MMR. The contrast with real sports is so obvious even Zax should be able to see it. It completely undermines Overwatch as any sort of sport at all, as rank means NOTHING.
New players, even genuine fresh fps players can luck out on placements and end up in gold. making the entire middle ranks a joke.
What else is that there is a mode for MMR called quickplay were every fool who don’t understand sports, sportsmanship, fairness and just want to goof off can play all day with all the meddling they want enabled. It even works better because there is no SR component. Go play it.
We have pointed out the problems with the systems and still people cling to MMR, a series of rigging data, that do nothing good. It’s seemingly incapable of creating games that feel good to play and that has people with actual similar skills playing on both teams - MMR is a travesty. A failure and the people who programed it and the corpos that dictated what it should do should be ashamed of it. It can’t even do what they say it does.
A neutral SR-based system would be simpler and work better. People would rank up or down untill 50/50 came by itself. And getting better would guarantee a rise in rank because of it, even “a little” better. Not like now when if you drop some rank, even by random luck, magically you still have to claw yourself up if you’re not significantly better at the game than your natural SR.
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And this is just small example, there can be way many other stuff affecting outcome 
Its not sport, overwatch is video game. I though its pretty clear.
yeah where there is a casual mode and a “competitive” one where matches are rigged at the very least away from any competitive spirit and away from fairness my the mm. People who want casual, can go casual. People who want competitive can do that. If there was such a thing - as it stands now comp is a bad joke only liked by mindless bots that like to live inside their bubble of positivity rather than changing things for the better.
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Ah yes, I always knew all coin flips were rigged. Rigged to a 50/50 outcome, that is.
The outcome is decided after the rigging, but it’s rigged to have a 50% chance either way. Got it.
In competitive Overwatch, the outcome (or result) is the win/loss. By your definition of rigging, this would mean trying to fix a desired win or loss for a certain team. Simply making a match where the expected outcome is 50/50 either way is absolutely not rigging. The match is made before an outcome is determined. It’s up to the players to determine the outcome.
By this definition, rigging would be intentionally making a match with as far from a 50/50 chance of either outcome as possible. A rigged match would be something with a 95/5 outcome.
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The matchmaker tries everything to bring together players of equal skill. However, we do not know whether he is either too tolerant or far too strict with the assessment of skill levels.
In any case, far too often he fails to create a really fair match or at least fair teams. we have been discussing the reasons for years.
my approach is that the mmr calculation is not applicable to smurfs and throwers because they never show their true skill level constantly. of course, they avoid a correct assessment and distort the overall picture. they are effectively outplaying the matchmaker.
however, very inconsistent players can provoke the same reaction. you end up in completely chaotic matches in which you represent either the best player - or the worst. with corresponding “matching” team mates.
the matchmaker does not determine the result, but he puts the teams together very consciously and as closely as possible based on the information available. it‘s totally common that overachievers get grouped together with underperformers. For example, there are almost always premade groups of the same size in the teams. it can definitely be referred to as a kind of handicapping - with best intentions but crappy results.
However, the matchmaker cannot foresee human error, tilting, perfect teamplay and fraud. Nevertheless, it would definitely be possible to also incorporate negative statistics for the matchmaking: left matches, reports and complaints, fluctuations in mmr and consistency …
and with such factors, matches could be rigged intentionally. for example: if i know that a player cancels 30% of his games, i could put him in the same team with an absolute high-flyer (smurf? booster?).
there would be a 30% probability that the „good player“ would be directly impacted by the leaver. he then would have to play twice as well and efficiently to compensate for the leaver. and THAT would definetly count as rigging.
I don‘t really think that the matchmaker‘s a.i. is that complex or sinister. the ability to predict and provoke such behaviors and outcomes goes way beyond a reasonable amount of effort (and costs)
and also „real“ smurfs typically win easily.
the matchmaker is just sloppy and values a FAST matchmaking over a FAIR matchmaking.
edit: the „silence“ from the devs could be easily explained with occams razor: The matchmaker really isn‘t a masterpiece for precognition and mental manipulation, but instead totally baseline and actually quite stupid 
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Genuine question here, why is it that only <2500 players believe their matches are “rigged”?
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I think it has to do with the SR range your teammates and opponents get picked out of. It’s 1000 SR for the lower tiers, so if you are a gold player 2200 or something, your teammates can be 1100 … and that’s quite some difference. And inbetween there all the new players get also dropped in, so you probably get a really bad experience just because of that wide range.
Mixing lower SR and higher SR people in a team to get an average SR that is the same as that of the opponent team is NOT creating equal teams or a good game experience. It most probably results in a total trainwreck for one side (like losing point A with 7 minutes left) because 1 or 2 players in one team dominate the whole match, the other 4 or 5 low SR players in that team don’t weight in at all.
On higher tiers people get picked from a smaller SR range, so those players are more similar in play experience… maybe that’s better for the result and how you experience the match.
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