1 game in. bionade, suzu, hindered: still annoying as hell

General Discussion
1

Only took me one game of playing in the new patch to experience this first hand, which makes me to believe the balance team didn’t play a single game on the new patch before launching it.

Doesn’t take a genius to figure out that getting hit by a fundamentally broken and antifun ability every 12 seconds is only a slight improvement over getting hit by a fundamentally broken and antifun ability every 10 seconds.

And that’s before we even get into ana’s other two fundamentally broken and antifun abilities that weren’t touched.

I don’t care what the stats say, all I know is that when then enemy team has kiriko or especially ana the game is simply less fun, when they have both it’s borderline unplayable.

Hindered isn’t quite as bad, but it still doesn’t make sense keeping it in the game when literally everyone hates it and when pre-hindered magnet grenade was perfectly fine

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2

Agreed on hinder, it’s just dumb. Biotic grenade has been in the game since OW1 so they’ll probably never get rid of it.

Personally I don’t mind biotic grenade anywhere near as much as hinder.

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The hypocrisy of hating abilities that are “antifun” because they hinder you in some way but also hating suzu which removes your hinders and effects from someone else.

One shots will always be far worse in my opinion. There’s no reacting at all.

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Did you think that adding a couple seconds to the cd would suddenly make them not annoying and the game totally different?

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Most players like the OP here are just very intolerant about anything that poses even a remote stiffness to their options. They want to be able to inflict mayhem to the enemy team without any resistance what’s so ever.

I really don’t care much about suzu/bionade/hindered since these are all insanely long cooldowns by OW standards to the point where its like the spammability of everything has come down quite a bit with these cooldown increases.

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I literally watched a Sombra hard focus on a Kiriko all game; and would NEVER engage on them when they burned Suzu

It was so funny watching them sit and wait, and wait, and the SECOND their Suzu came back up, they would try to fight them

Like… They had 15 seconds to just delete the Kiri, but waited until the CD came back

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They don’t even need to get rid of it, it’s fine conceptually. It’s the 100% negated part that’s unnecessary, they could put it to 50% reduced and it would still be quite potent.

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Suzu is antifun for a different reason, being that it makes people invincible with no caveats. Pure invincibility, 100% damage and healing still come from the target, they can still move as they please, and they can even still contest objectives.

If suzu did just cleanse and make you immune to CC then it wouldn’t be antifun.

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Nah just lower the duration.

People don’t realize that it’s rare to get instant value out of antiheal. In most cases Ana hits someone and then it takes at least a few milliseconds for the rest of her team to realize what has happened and shift priorities. You can’t always anti at just the right time where your target is already taking heavy fire and being sustained by healing.

They need to lower the duration back to 3s.

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That’s just the same thing as changing the cooldown. Making it happen less frequently doesn’t suddenly make it any kind of fun to deal with.

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They need an even longer one because they can’t land shots, let alone time their engagements ok lolol.

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No, people really don’t get this. Okay, scenario:

You’re playing Reinhardt. Your shield is low so you drop it to let enemies chip at your armor while you get heals and you start launching fire strikes. Ana hits you with anti and starts firing at you, negating the Mercy/Moira duo that is backing you up (for now).

Up to this point that enemy Sigma and Hanzo have been abusing your shield and trying to take space. The enemy Baptiste and Soldier: 76 have been doing other things, mostly out of position where they could also abuse your shield.

You aren’t near enough to cover where you can get out of trouble, so you raise your battered shield to ride out anti. Mercy flits away to damage boost your Sojourn, while Moira starts leeching health from the enemy Sigma.

Everyone on the enemy team realizes you’re purpled and behind a weak shield, so the entire enemy team prepares to focus you down. Ana, Hanzo, and Sigma are already firing on you. Soldier and Baptiste are ~2s away from repositioning to fire on you. Your team’s dps isn’t doing so great, so your Sojourn and Cassidy aren’t getting any meaningful picks over the next 4s and are mostly just shooting the Sigma, who has just put up his barrier.

What happens next is heavily-dependent on how long your shield has to last and how long your supports have to wait to go back to healing you.

Nade currently lasts 3.5s. In this example, the combo of Sigma + Hanzo (assume Hanzo has already used Storm Arrow to weaken your shield) + Ana can pull 73.3 + 97.4 + 93.75 dps (assume Ana doesn’t have to reload in this situation). At around 264 dps, they can bring down your half-health shield in under three seconds on their own. With help from Soldier and Baptiste after 2s have passed, they can have it down in about 2.5s or less.

That would give the enemy team about 1s of antiheal remaining to peel off your armor and then kill you. And give that enemy team comp, they certainly would be capable of doing the job.

Take 0.5s off the nade duration and they only get 0.5s to hit you without incoming heals. That gives you a chance.

Take 1s off Nade duration and nade becomes useless. By the time your shield finally breaks, nade has already worn off.

Reducing heal % changes the character of biotic grenade entirely. I can still save you with Transcendence. Ana can use her own nade to offset the heal penalty and heal you like normal (not currently possible). Etc.

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The whole point of reducing the reduction amount is to change how you interact with it. Currently, supports that aren’t Kiriko don’t interact with anti at all, you just shift to dealing damage until the anti’d target becomes not so or dies because there is no recourse or strategy for them.

Also why do you think that the heal boost effect would suddenly overide the heal reduction effect? That would be a deliberate choice by the developers since currently that’s not how it works, anti overides boost. If they changed that interaction at all, they’d just make the two effects cancel each other out.

Regardless it doesn’t change that anti is anti’s best counter even if the heal boost did override the heal reduction. It already works the other way around. Your concern there is meaningless.

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The only reason why anti’s heal boost is currently negated by enemy anti is that the heal negation effect is just that: an absolute prohibition on healing. Change it to - 50% and the two effects would stack for a total of 0% heals.

Otherwise I do not think it would be a good idea to change how supports interact with anti.

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If supports had mei’s ice wall or freeze, people would not hesitate to ask for it to be nerfed constantly. Look what’s happening to lifeweaver’s pull, it’s been nerfed to 19 seconds now lol. Supports have strong utility to compensate for the lack of damage. And the ones that can do tons of damage (e.g. zen) lacks in other areas like healing, survivability etc.

The only outlier is bap who can do everything well. But even he has limitations in the ways he can deal damage and heal. He’s not that good against snipers, and his healing is unreliable in long-range. Just like how despite mei having strong utility, she also has good damage, but it’s more limited.

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I have no idea why people who hate anti, hinder, or CC in general cry about suzu. It is extremely counter-intuitive. Suzu is our savior, get over the fact that it denies kills because newsflash, every support does that.

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Wait a minute, this actually sounds like a good idea.
Suzu will then be used more actively and in anticipation of a CC instead of a “no, u” ability.

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That’s not it at all, anti very clearly overrides the boost visually. Both effects are not active at the same time otherwise if you got hit by anti first then got hit by the boost, when the anti would ended then you’d still have the boosted effect afterwards. That is not the case, so anti straight up overrides the boost and there’s no reason that would change if the reduction changed unless the developers deliberately did so.

Also why would it be a bad thing? It only effects one character negatively and every support(including Ana herself) positively. Given Ana has been a top of the line support for years and also technically benefits from the change, I fail to see how it would be bad in any capacity.

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It would not work as just a cleanse in its current state. You would need to buff it accordingly (that cooldown needs to be nearly half) and all the CC users would cry louder because they never get to cheese anymore once she is in the lobby.

I love the idea, however.

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Yeah, I’m pretty sure they intend it to be used that way too. They could even make the suzu effect longer or heal more if it didn’t make you invincible, there’s options.