〽 Sym 3.0: worse pickrate than 2.0, winrate DOWN 7%

General Discussion
1034

I’ve not played outside of a six-stack in a long time - and I’m not discounting how fun it is to use the TP to circumvent the chokes on Volskaya, Anubis, Eichenwalde, etc.

But it’s always necessarily more efficient to swap off her after the first point for a more consistent damage source.

It’s like, “Oh! We wanted Symmetra to continue to be a niche pick!”. Well you got that alright, back to the problem of people swapping off after the first point. But, in the opposite direction, since now she’s only truly useful on attack!

Sure, people don’t actively throw anymore, now that’s an improvement - anything is better than your team literally not playing the game. I would say that isn’t even a legitimate point of comparison, it’s like, “oh sure, you’re not going to automatically lose anymore but you’re still going to be flamed, so put down the Sym”.

And no, she was useful to her team before - and I would say significantly more useful. Everywhere except at the highest levels of play, she terrorized unprepared and uncoordinated teams on defense.

And even sometimes on attack if the situation was right and you had a star DPS player.

There’s nothing better than discourse!

Certainly! So we tune the game to the top 1/16th of a percent, and then we see incredible pickrates at lower ELO, and I’m not saying that’s a bad thing - I’m not saying her low pickrate is a bad thing - I’m just saying that it’s an indication that maybe something should be more or less done to make her more useful, since the winrate also fell by 1/10th, even a little bit more

Why though? It’s something that’s never used, ever, outside of one niche scenario - which, by the way, in that scenario, you’re getting shield bashed and melted, because 12 meters is prohibitively short for an ability that’s so difficult to aim, particularly on console. (Console is a different animal and that isn’t the point of this.)

1035

yes that’s how every game that takes the esport route works. they don’t take the recoil off of the ak because silver tier players in CS cant control it.

because it can 2 shot the almost the entire roster?

that’s you playing badly not the kit being bad. her secondary fire is extremely strong right now. you not wanting to use it doesn’t change that. not being able to aim something doesn’t mean its bad, it means you cant aim.

2 Likes
1036

Alright, fair enough. I personally don’t find it too awful to use so long as the target doesn’t have Genji or D.Va vertical mobility. But I also don’t see why something has to be so terrible and unreliable simply for the sake that something else is consistent and deals near-average DPS.

2 Likes
1037

its balance. you cant have 2 forms of fire that decimate teams. its not balanced. if symmetra had a primary fire as good as her secondary, it would be unfair. there would be no effective range where she is at a disadvantadge

1038

Anyone who knows metrics will tell you that if something changes, seeing a decrease in its use or satisfaction isn’t a 1:1 correlation with the item being better. It usually has to do with people learning to to maximize or take advantage of the new features/abilities.

I’m not saying that’s 100% of the difference, but it’ll account for a large percent of it.

2 Likes
1039

Even the turrets have a major issue, they got rid of half the turrets but yet kept their extremely long cooldown and never increased their survivability to anything meaningful and are far too easily destroy traveling in the air also. 30 seconds worth of cooldowns destroyed in half a second is absurd.

2 Likes
1040

Probably comes down to “they’d be too good at lower ranks” or something.

And by probably I mean we all know damn well how powerful turrets are when people have zero gamesense and no capacity to functionally aim.

2 Likes
1041

Every rework and big patch adjustment showed changes in pickrate/winrate within two weeks. Sym3 already have two months since it hit live. It’s more than enough time for people to adjust and the new users to learn how to play her.

Her rework as as successful as Mercy. Where everyone that don’t play the character think everything is fine and the ones that complain need to git gud.

3 Likes
1042

Oh really… good, can we have more HP for Junk’s rip tire again, using the same argumentation?

1043

Quotes on this please or some evidence.

If you think current Symmetra is balanced, you are honestly delusional.

  1. Turret’s total damage less then before, numbers of turrets less than before, stacking turrets, less than before.
  2. Useless primary requiring insane amount of tracking for weak damage relative to other DPS.
  3. Teleporter that is literally useless if not used by teammates, requires 100% team work. The only hero that actually requires 100% teamwork to actually be efficient. No other hero in the game requires that level of coordination to actually do anything.
  4. Situational, weak ultimate that does it’s intended job 20% of the time.
  5. Orbs that no longer pierce, lost shield-busting function at choke. Not fast enough to be a consistent source of damage, blockable.
  6. The biggest issue of them all - a 200HP hero with no sustain, no mobility and no escape ability of any kind with a primary that works at almost melee range and requires 10s of solid tracking roughly to do any damage.
  7. Primary that doesn’t work well against armor because of the tickrate.
  8. Only hero in the game to have absolutely 0% pickrate, most Pros have stated Sym 3.0 is still bad.

Her kit is downright garbage right now, someone said above that Symmetra is better than Sombra. I have to question that considering Sombra even when not securing kills has an undeniable value in terms of hacking enemies and shutting them down and EMP is one of the best ultimates in the game if used properly.

6 Likes
1044

I’m sure you realize it’s not the same reasoning - rip tire is an ultimate that has always dealt the same damage in the same area, and was made more delicate because of its immediate lethality. That being said, you can instantly delete it with a lot of abilities, which is good.

Symm’s turrets at least have to be able to survive something.

Could use a lot of tweaking.

1 Like
1045

Thank God. Hopefully she’ll go down to 0

1 Like
1046

As a Genji main, I’d expect you to be happier with Symmetra in her current state because of the lack of auto-aim, and not to be so resentful.

2 Likes
1047

Nah, pretty sure she’s straight up garbage.

2 Likes
1048

Yeah, let’s not forget that this rework totally changes who counters who. A top tier hero, Genji, lost one of his best counters (if she had been strong enough to warrant picking at all.) Now who is Sym realistically supposed to counter with her new beam attack?

It’s not a bad thing that she had a lock-on attack. Winston has it (plus it hits multiple targets.) Moira has a very similar version of it. Brig and Rein effectively do full damage without aiming. Why was Sym, already the worst hero [zero pickrate in OWL], the only one who got “punished” for being a “no-skill” hero?

3 Likes
1049

I just let my turrets take care of him. He still can’t defect their beams.

1050

A random thought: Why did they have to lower her ammo to 70 when her gun was made harder to use? She got too many “compensation nerfs” with this rework. It’s like they forgot that she needed to be made stronger, not kept the same (or worse.)

5 Likes
1051

1k responses now reached on this thread, still no word from Blizz about the state of Sym. Why do the devs dislike talking to Sym mains so much?

If we were just gonna end up in the same place as before Sym 3.0, what was the point of even having a rework?

@Justin

More ppl play this game than just pros, and the idea that any game should cater exclusively to a tiny minority of the playerbase is madness.

4 Likes
1052

The devs do not ever read these forums unprompted. Any thread at all, not just the Sym threads. They do not even read the PTR discussion or bug report threads.

The sole contact that the devs have to the community is tweet subscriptions to a small number of OWL stars and big name content creators / streamers. If those small handful of people are not tweeting about a thread / issue then it is beneath the radar for the staff.

^ all of which is why I have grown increasingly cynical and pessimistic about anything good getting done.

I did give you an up vote though for that last sentence regarding madness states.

1 Like
1053

The reason the devs don’t discuss in boards like this seems to be twofold Boards like this (large and critical) have a lot of salty lurkers, so as soon as they post it dissolves into just hating on them and salt spreading faster than the red sea. The other is that as soon as they seem to post the discussions tends to become less constructive because of the above and those that are just looking for confirmation of something being done are less likely to post as well.

If they don’t post, they end up getting more ideas on what the mains want in terms of buffs, changes, etc. Its been suggested and blizz confirmed that they have lurkers going through boards of this caliber (in such statements as ‘we do read the forums even if we don’t post’, etc). Basically someone is watching here, just not posting so they can get a feel on how to fix her; if they feel fixes are needed.

1 Like