Remember the infamous mercy megathread?
That was probably the most overt middle finder the devs ever did towards the community. The complaining actually died out from their silence and lack of a acknowledgment.
(I know mercy is balanced but she could have been way more engaging to play and she could have had sooo many experiments with her kit)
so what u mean?
buff dive so it become useable in diamond?
because dive only works on top 500 on season 1-8
below that its rein zarya
no one can properly execute dive in diamond
We are just talking not strictly about “Dive” in true form; we are talking about hypermobility in general.
Huh? Literally the entire rant is about utility
Not “properly” but in lower ranks people are- surprise- worse!
So even if you can’t execute a GM level dive, You can still run some form of dive and be successful because you’re playing people at around your skill level and they can be taken down.
Comps like rush, double shield, dive etc all exist in Diamond but often are scuffed or have odd replacements. They still occur and if the heroes required are good, they become more obvious.
So what I’m finding lines up with what Blizzard says. Tanks are doing lots of damage currently in Overwatch right now. I’m seeing Tanks like Zarya, Sigma, Roadhog, and D.va averaging close to ~15k damage, and typically higher than what Tracer’s total damage values are.
This is not unusual given how Blizzard has balanced Tanks. So by removing one tank from the current balancing situation in Overwatch right now, means that you’re losing out 15k damage, and the possibility of one-shot opportunities (since several Tanks are capable of this). This means that healing power is going average higher and stronger in Overwatch 2 than in the prior game, so tuning down healing is logical.
He’s better tuned now, but he can still ramp up quite a bit if everyone sticks together. If they are toning down healing in OW2, he’s most likely been tweaked, so he should be in a better spot.
Overwatch was still really popular and still growing then, it’s only when Brigitte and the eventual GOATS metagame did Overwatch began to stagnate. And even prior to that, during the period you mentioned; it wasn’t flanking that was dominating, but Triple-Tank due to Ana’s Nanoboost.
Supports already have exceptional value, though it is tuned to be slightly less than Tanks, due to homogenization (again, how many supports boost damage). Value in terms of damage, isn’t necessarily going to increase unless they suddenly decide that every damage-role hero gets some utility added to their kits (which I don’t think they’ll do). Thus, for Damage-role it’s going to continue to be value based on how quickly they can eliminate targets. Basically, Damage isn’t going to gain value (regardless of whether there’s one tank or two). but since they’re mandatory, they can’t be rendered irrelevant to the composition.
Individually… that’s still going to an issue, but we’ll see what Blizzard can do here.
Healing is healing and it’s a value into itself. It doesn’t really matter how much healing you’re capable of, only that you can do it and provide it towards the team. That’s value. The rest of their kit has value, but that will depend on what value they can give to their team. Most Supports typically offer more value than nearly all of the Damage-role, but many also offer some utility that many of them share. Damage-boosting via direct or indirect is one such case and that cheapens the value that an individual Support can offer.
WHen everyone can do damage and one-shot, the uniqueness of damage and one-shotting is lessen. Put another way, damage is cheap value. One-shotting is capable by several; thus if your only role in the game is to produce damage, you won’t have much value. Hence why Tanks and Supports have tremendous impact and value, because they do something more than just damage.
TTK has slowed from launch and it used to be even faster back in beta. Damage as a whole has gone down, and while somewhat necessary; healing creeped up along with a number of new tanking methods (Fortify effects, Steadfast, Kinetic Grasp/Defense Matrix).
Tanking itself is an anomaly. It only really exists and works in the MMO sphere and only because of dumb AI. You can’t really have heroes in a competitive game designed to take in all this damage and still live through it. You break the game, and it gets worse when you double it.
Unlikely.
Unlikely.
Also unlikely. Tanks being able to resist Mei’s slow will allow them to more confidently deal with her.
The biggest variety in playstyles is found in Tanks, not Damage. It’s only in Tanks do you have the fastest hero in the game. A bonafide melee hero with a hammer and shield. A unit that can fly and self-destruct and not die when the mech is killed. Only in the Tank-role can you find a literal Butcher from Diablo. And only in the tank-role can you find animals, omnics and humans.
Sure, the Damage-role has builders, commandos and soldiers; cowboys and ninjas; but all of them have guns. Very rarely in the Damage-role do you find a unique weapon like Mei’s freeze spray, or Genji’s shuriken or Hanzo’s bow. And yeah, you got plenty of choices in the Damage-role which includes Echo. So someone there will always fit you in terms of variety.
But that’s not what Blizzard wants for Mercy. In this case, Blizzard wins.
They said they would be open to feedback though. Nothing ever came of it. They didn’t make it a “us blizzard devs want this” situation.
I didn’t expect them to attempt literally every idea mercy players threw their way but there wasn’t even a conversation to be held or acknowledgment of the most popular ideas. All after claiming to be “listening”
i agree everyone keep focusing on dps having high damage
but forgot that, on paper / stats
sigma and zarya deal on average 50-70% more damage than average dps
orisa dva hog deal on average 30-50% more damage than average dps
rein winston ball dealing on average same damage as average dps
tank contribute more damage than 1 dps
the only advantages dps has was focused damage and burst, but if it was average dps, tank provide more
Just got back phone, reminder still in the middle of moving.
Gonna take awhile to catch up
It is a buff to damage because if they eliminate 1 target, that is worth more than 1 target in 6v6. And without a second enemy tank there is less of their damage being mitigated. Again another way they gain value.
Flanking with hypermobility is why we got Moira and Brig, there is no doubt about this. I mean this is well known and discussed by Jeff K. himself in more than one discussion.
I feel like we just got out of a meta of high damage, only to just get back into it.
Devs might be really trying to to cycle us here.
They are open to feedback; that doesn’t mean that they can’t say no. They designed the game, with design goals in mind. They know what they want better than playerbase does. It’s same situation with Symmetra feedback and asking for things that Blizzard neither wants, nor does it fit their vision for their character.
And you have to understand that. Mercy is designed to be simple; she does a lot of healing for free and she boosts damage for free, with no aiming requirements; just basic attention. You need to respect that.
Not quite true. Typically, damage-role heroes are going to have higher peaks than Tank roles, but Tank-role heroes both have an easier time applying that damage, and split their focus between defense and damage. As a result they have “competitive” damage values with the Damage-role; but not necessarily deal more or less damage than they are capable of.
That might not make much sense, and there are probably other ways to communicate it.
Sure. 1/6th is less than 1/5th, and you’re right there is less mitigation available, but the balance is changing to a new standard so values will have to change as well. You’re not wrong here, and I can agree with it, but there’s a little more complexity here that I’m not able to communicate effectively right now.
Moira and Brigitte were in development during Overwatch’s beta period. Character designs in Overwatch take years of work to get through these were not knee-jerk reactions to current metagame standards going on at the time.
To further drive this point; Sojourn has been in development for at least 5 years now and is a launch hero for OW2. Assuming that Sojourn is in playable testing state right now; she’s been in playtesting for at least two years now. Plenty of time to understand where the metagame is shifting with her.
Then they should be upfront and actually say no
The megathread had no direct replies, the most popular “not satisfied with mercy current state” thread also never got so much as a response.
She’s out healed by several heroes and does not contribute direct damage.
Again, she’s balanced but you can still make a simple character more engaging without over complicating them. Every hero in this game is “simple” at face value but carries depth when you look into them more.
Why can’t they be transparent about these “goals”
Please stop speaking for them on a topic they never meaningfully addressed. I’ll respect their decisions once they make them clear through a method rather than the action of silence.
Jeff was very passionate about the valk rework. When it came out horribly OP they simply chipped away at mercy instead of looking at the problem from a new angle.
The nerfs were 100% necessary but the final result did not resemble the Vision Jeff overtly discussed in his first intro video to mercy’s changes.
u can check on overbuff
that most tank deal alot more compared to average / most dps
tracer average damage was 10.000 while sigma 17.000 per 10 min
im talking about stat damage here, not burst or anything similiar
They are reducing both damage mitigation from tanks and healing output from supports, while stating that being one player down in a 5v4 fight is a bigger disadvantage than a 6v5.
I’m more than a little concerned that this game will be a respawn simulator and a sit and wait while the other team groups up again in spawn game. Doesn’t sound particularly fun.
you say mercy does a lot of things for free, but is it really free when it comes at the cost of a kit with less agency? Baptiste has a bit of aim and an ammo magazine but is way more impactful and useful in critical moments. Mercy might as well be a necromancer, as in a clutch situation you better hope that player gets a rez window because she is not saving you with those heals. You can always use a Bap or Ana on your team. Also Blizz did a terrible job responding to the feedback, I think ppl would have been less upset had there been an actual conversation. Good news is they seem to be better about it now.
Are tank roles having an easier time applying damage due to their HP pool? Or the combo of HP pool and damage mitigation. Which tanks need damage toned down to match this.
You didnt say it but someone said ttk is higher now than when the game released, outside of a few instances most of the time a shield breaking or a bad timed turn around a corner did not= insta dead back then.
I’m sorry which Tanks and Supports have One Shots? The only one’s I can think of are cooldown based one shots that are incredibly easy to predict. DPS one shots are on their main fire or quick cooldowns. You know just press right click with McCree and deal 300 damage. Or Widowmaker dealing 300 damage on her primary fire. Or Reapers headshot one shot against anything that’s not a tank. Or hanzo’s one shot primary fire. Or echos 200dps beam. Rocket punch and it’s 4 second CD.
Please show me a video of the beta where a tank gets killed in under a second of peaking. Oh there aren’t any? Must be because Damage has been nerfed.
They have literally said this. That speed buff passive they said they are going to give every DPS is equal to the speed boost Genji gets during his ultimate.
Again, the developers have said this.
Again, I’m talking about the passive the devs have talked about adding to OW2. And Mei won’t be the problem for tanks. It’ll be the hypermobile ones that can just ignore them or the ones that completely out range them. There’s a reason they have to give tanks way more range. Go and watch the OW2 Live stream, the tanks don’t do anything the entire time because everything can just w away from them.
Sure if you describe it like this, I can do the same for DPS if you want. (btw you only mentioned 5 of the 7 tanks which proves my point of the lacking variety)
You just labelled more unique aspects to a dps character than you could tanks and that’s funny.
But lets talk about playstyle which is more of the problem. In tanks you have 3 characters with forward shields. Two of them are designed to place their shield and shoot from behind it and that’s all they can do. The other one holds their shield and walks forward until they’re in melee range. Great. Well then you have two high mobile dive tanks. Both jump onto the enemy then jump away. Seeing all the variety. Lets talk about the highly mobile off tanks right? Oh wait there’s just the one. What about consistently high damage tanks? Oh wait just one of them too.
There are 4 high mobility flankers in the DPS and they are all played completely differently and all have DRASTICALLY different kits. There are three long range snipers, all played differently. There are 3 brawling/tank buster dps, all play differently. There are 2 flying dps, both played completely differently to each other. Then there’s the builders, two of them, both played differently. And that’s not even all of them. There’s 17 to choose from.
All of those DPS can be played with way more positional freedom than Tanks or Supports. Try playing Ana, Zen or even Ball like any DPS and see how bad it is.
Exhausted from moving bookcases, bed frames and still don’t have internet truely.
Gonna check out for now.
But I hope we get some answers.
I will say I applaud how diplomatic his answer was.
We don’t want fights to feel too drawn out so we’re lowering healing across the board.
I wonder as a support main how this is going to feel. Like are we getting anything to compensate?
I don’t mind as much if we lose a little healing, to get more utility, but this doesn’t sound like the case with brig losing her shield bash and them nerfing CC across the board