It would be on melee heroes. On ranged heroes?Not sure.
Especially when said ranged hero has another dash and protected.
I mean if you don’t want to deal shallow DPS in the first place you have to be in melee range, isn’t that the case for Tracer? That’s literally has been most of Tracer’s playstyle and most popular builds in the last 4 years, any Tracer main will tell you that if you aren’t in melee range to charge your PB faster you are playing her wrong, the devs themselves encourage it too.
Same case with GM where he hits like a truck in melee, there’s a reason too why he’s most popular assassin due his DPS in melee form in the first place which can shutdown a lot of things with/out silver bullet involved.
Genji relies so hard on his team to wear down enemies. If your sustain dps can’t do it then he’s useless.
The shallow damage still is better than running in circles doing nothing like melees in some situations.
As for greymane you can totally pick long range on human form and play him mostly like that most of the time.
He is not a dead hero if he can’t go in melee range like say illidan or kerrigan.
People pretending 4.5 range or greymane have it tougher than all-in melee heroes are outright insulting
Thank god imperius is a breath of fresh air until he gets nerfed to oblivion for doing his job.
2 Likes
And Zeratul being blinking to do all his stuff and blink is not ranged, gotcha, so if someone has the thing in reverse this is 
, nice double standards bro, please tell me how oppressed your main is for being ironically the currently the most mobile hero in the game when Tracer requires to sacrifice blinks to get a melee hit which is necessity if she wants to output the most DPS she can, I swear you sound so clueless about these two heroes and you come up with random stuff like you have been stretching about Imperius “unable to AA his target when stun runs out” bro that’s literally not gonna happen unless CCed otherwise he can get AA before they even start moving even if they queue a movement.
That shallow damage differentiate between a bad and good player for not using the hero to its full potential, I can debate that most of your DPS comes from Melee and Pulse Bomb at least a large marginal of it that would give a tide difference of winning or losing the game.
Silver forum logic at it finest.
Not like the delay of his Q stun was patched because of it.
Cry me a river when melees have to all in dash when you can push the recall button or blink back.
Try playing kerrigan or illidan, you know risky melee heroes.
Ironically the" most mobile hero of the game" has to wait for level 7 to not have to all in dash and clear waves when both genjo and tracer can chill since level 0.
Always said that if it was up to me current illidan would be the most mobile hero of the game ever.
Not too late for it to be a reality meaning nerfing the 3 heroes mobility. I would be fine with it any day.
At east i would not be butthurt a melee hero at 20 would be more mobile that my 4.5 range main.
Pathetic.
Will never be as pathetic as saying old recall for that matter is inferior to wormhole with its so incredible 1.25 second delay almost no one picks it anymore.
1 Like
The irony in this recall comparison is the same as using any level 7 talent to go in and out with blink, how is it inferior to it? it can be spammed every 10 seconds, it doesn’t update its location ever 0.25 seconds and recalls the last 4, you know exactly where you are recalling in comparison to hers, and now it is in the dumpster fire.
What is the difference? It seems to me you don’t understand that 10 seconds recall is more superior than 30 seconds recall that only blinks the last 3 seconds and now is 2 seconds and is considerably underwhelming if you are in a rooted none dive team fight, especially for a hero who’s rework nerfed their mobility even more in the process with the loss of bullet time insane kiting potential.
Stick to dismissing people discussion as QM crying and bringing things not relevant to the discussion like in the other thread where you literally made it QM crying all of a sudden, I think Zeratul is fine, it just when the mobility comes in mind, you seem to make him sound so weak when he has so many bloody tools to use as ins and outs which has a further range than Tracer, just like Tracer who’s functionality is literally being in the fight and in range of any hero attack to even attack in the first place especially when it is necessary to charge PB asap it requires melee range to charge up, but unlike her, her mobility is nothing close to his at all, what is it with you people sounding like an oppressed role all of a sudden especially Zeratul, he’s rated one of the best melee picks for a reason because he’s quite mobile and a lot, even first pick ban by some streamers, its not like Genji and Tracer requires to be in melee range as a necessity for them to output sort of DPS than being ranged in general, just like dash into shingan on 13 with genji, or just Tracer melee damage and full pulse bomb combo dps requires her to do a very focused combo in melee range that can be interrupted, like Zera.
He wouldn’t? Poor macro (push, merc, waveclear), no CC, mostly single target damage are bigger drawbacks than you realize all this for that (now diminishing) mobility. Original post never proposed such changes and even advised against giving Genji 5.5 range at all. Even with 1875 base hp and buffed AA he’d still have to be careful on engages unless he’s he wants to get rekt. Also, who said anything about giving him sustain? Bigger team fight presence and reversion of his mobility nerfs is being asked. Please read through the post
1 Like
“give genji 4 aa”
wait genji with double jump is op, genji shouldn’t get 3 charges of swift strike, no no no dont give him stukov aa dmg, dragonblade with no cd is op… *Forum logic
People would still find him too hard to play with that.
On every Genji thread I write the same:
Make him melee, buff his health and AA and you got really nice hero with high skill ceiling.
1 Like
why do you think ranged heroes should have the same, if not more mobility then melee heroes again?
1 Like
Probably, but not with insane 20% damage and 15%ish HP buffs.
Is this some sort of trick? So later when you compromise
“Well, how about just 10% damage and 5% HP”
It sounds more reasonable?
Also yeah, Genji could use some buffs, not sure exactly where myself, besides talents as you note.
He certainly doesn’t need all the buffs you seem to want on him. Maybe I’m misinterpreting a list of potential buffs as all the buffs you want at once?
Is it really insane though? Consider Way of the Shimada with its +1 range and 15% (stackable) damage buff… was it enough to make Genji competitive even in Masters + ? Not in the least. Ever consider his damage and health were under tuned to start with, and if he’s to survive and be impactful during team fights with 4.5 range, he’ll need BOTH damage and health increases. 200 base health still puts him at around 4k by lv 20. Greymane has 4500 health at 20 due to scaling, 5.1k effective health if you account for worgen form’s armor. He’s got +1 range or +2 with Quick Silver Bullets) and arguably a better getaway with Eyes in the Dark. Yet people still claim he’s fragile AF. Let’s not forget his waveclear is leagues above Genji’s… Finally to answer your question, is this some sort of trick? No, it’s what Genji needs to be competitive.
Yes.
It is in the range of the buffs they have Cassia after her rework was terribly underpowered.
And you can see what that did to her.
B/c this specific ranged hero’s AA and damage abilities forces you to get close to put out any sort of meaningful damage, well within engage and CC abilities of melee assassins? He’s got no sustain or CC which means he’s more or less a thicc minion w/o mobility.
And Zera needs to get point blank to deal meaningful damage, and isn’t exactly swimming in sustain, defensive options or CC outside of a long CD ult.
1 Like
Why would you be comparing the health buff of a hero with an inherent 30 armor trait to one without it. Do you know how much effective health Cassia has when her trait is up? Over 2400k base. That scales to over FIVE THOUSAND by level 20. Did I mention she’s got all sorts of AA modifiers that increases her damage, attack speed AND range that puts her AA damage WELL ABOVE Genji’s?
Here is a question:
If you have talents that multiple your AA by a percent, does the percent increase it gives change when the initial number changes?
Hint: NO.
Also Genji by his nature and current design with resets is destined to need to be balanced on the lower end of winrates. I think it is to low currently. I think he could use buffs.
But the buffs you want are insanely overkill. Especially as a starting place.
No, just a 3 second 40% slow on a 9+ range projectile that allows anyone w/o mobility to stick to the target like hot tar on the skin of one’s hiney, heal 35% of every AA which can be talented to heal nearly 6% of his max hp every 3rd AA. Now if we account for Ults… heal for 60% of spell damage done, one of the CC mechanics in the game or kill a bruiser or anyone under 5k health within a 3.2 second time-frame with Twilight Falls, with 4/5 seconds of 40% slow from double bombing targets with singularity spike…
Agreed, but % number doesn’t need to be altered when base damage scales, because the modified damage will go increase as a result of damage scaling due to leveling up. While her base damage numbers are not scare adding all sorts of modifiers on top do.
Give me a reason to believe giving Genji another 200hp is overkill? This is a hero built without sustain, CC and has marginal waveclear. Most of his burst is single target with VERY situational AOE; his range doesn’t allow him to AA safely, it takes forever for him to wear down anything other than heroes with sub 4k health and no armor modifiers. Using his mobility to disengage means he can’t re-engage within at least 12 seconds unless you’ve gotten kill/reset. When people complain about heroes with higher health pool with actual sustain being squish, while dealer competitive burst/ higher sustain, what does that make Genji?
3 Likes