“She’s a heal bot but also not a heal bot because she provides the same exact utility she did before the rework, but now she heals more for less damage.”
Am I missing something?
Also that is not the meaning of heal bot, let alone anything bot, a bot is used when you are viable for doing the same thing again for the rest of the match without using a few or even anything else in the process.
Q bot thrall was an acyonym because he would just simply spam crash lightning and then just spam Q and far away, no engage, no into the face playing, nothing, just be a ranged tanky assassin with a powerful poke tool.
Tyrande doesn’t only heal, she does more things while healing.
And I’m not saying she has to be a DD, but if she has talents to build her DD oriented, then why it so bad???
For example Rengar Is very OP. I like Rengar, he Is a healer that can do many other things at the same time, but Tyrande healer has only one job, throw the bird, aa, heal like bot, don’t let them catch you and try to stun, but essentially: aa, heal, aa, heal, aa, heal.
Except, she’s one of the highest damage dealers of the healers, and that’s not even including all the hidden damage she supplies with her mark. When people say stuff like this, like it just makes me roll my eyes. You literally can not even heal bot well if you don’t AA, so calling her a heal bot when she actually has to do damage in order to heal, and has one of the lower heal outputs is just a weird thing to say.
It does not add up.
Between using her E which you yourself admit is not easy to do, having to heal and AA as much as possible which lots of "mage mains " do not do , having to use owl with its multiple use through talents (and small width).
There is lots to do which is not the same as what people call boring.
Either you are a multitask freak or you don’t understand how the hero works and use it poorly.
“Rawr power is no substitute for true strength.” - Tyrande, 2020.
But to be honest why should Tyrande deal tons as classified “healer”? It doesn’t make sense, because if healers should do a lot of dmg, why do you need assasines then?
How?
Sure, you have a vague understanding, a guess, but that’s not enough to make the right calls.
Harsh moonlight says hi.
(40% slow and dmg reduction for 4 sec.)
It’s not that hard and the goal is to try to shoot it in a way that they either get hit, or need to take a longer/less safe route.
Like if they’re running towards their gate. You shoot it so they either walk straight into it or need to step aside which serves the same purpose dmg-wise as a stun, since they remained in your vision, outside of their structures’ safety.
Disagree.
Disagree. Just played her, still have the same amount of fun.
Love “E” build and Trait build.
But it is diverse.
Healers are not supposed to have Assassin lvl of dps, because than why play Assaasins (ekhm… Double Support Meta ekhm…).
Tyrande has:
a nice stun
armor reduction
vision
either global heal with stealth or zoning tool
And her heals can be talented for Cleanse and Spell Armor and she already has the power to dual a few Assassins with success (and the right build).
If you don’t enjoy a kit, play other kits.
If you enjoy the kit but think it’s weak, try a different approach: what am I doing wrong?
I thought Tyrande required her to constantly be in the action, dishing out damage, so she can heal since her heals come back based on how often she auto attacks (and time as well, duh, but auto attacks speed it up by a lot!)
If anything, you don’t WANT to be in the backline because you’re not using her to potential…
She is not. She doesn’t even see the daylight in higher ranks. Last 2 patches her pick rate is 5,5% in master with 4th lowest healer win rate. Last 7 patches 7,3% pick rate and 6th lowest win rate. Moving Elune’s Chosen to 4 made her even weaker early on. When they moved her cleanse from 7 to 16 they already killed the hero and that was just them kicking her dead corpse.
Being aggressive healer or even diver doesn’t exclude hero from being a healbot. First is how you play her while second is more of what she does. And yes Tyrande is without a doubt a healbot. She attacks to heal. Her original design and first rework both attacked to secure kill as that was how you made do with her low heal capability.
They have torn asunder her kit when it comes to damage and CC.
AA damage is among lowest with supports nearly halved along the years. Morales who was once laughed for having atrociously bad AA now deals more AA DPS than Tyrande baseline. On top of that she has lost all kinds of AA damage talents she used to have. Only thing left here that is meaningful damage is Darnassian Archery which is wildly considered trap talent as enemy is never going to let you stack it outside of potato land. Even after latest buff it’s bad because you can’t keep it up by hitting minions, you simply won’t lose the stacks when you accidentally hit one so change was done with really bad players in mind who couldn’t control what they hit.
Armor reduction has gone down from 25 to 15. Can no longer be used on buildings and works irregularly on objectives(previously worked on all of them).
Lunara flare has gone from 1,25s stun to 0,75s over time. Outside of Lucio trait at 13 it’s the worst hard CC among healers despite being follow up ability. Damage has been reduced about 25% over time to 150 so it will never do big damage even if you take quest for it. It’s among lower mid tier of support damage abilities, low damage if you consider DPS.
As for vision, value of those talents has gone down significantly over the years. Million spam abilities exist now to check bushes. Rotations are faster due to higher mobility and MS compared to before. Almost every game is played in 4-1 split due to abundant wave clear which has reduced ganking in general and given more vision. Because of how rigidly optimized the way to play the game has become you always have good general sense of where enemy is or could be. Also introduction of pings gave you way to alert potato on the other side of map, he is more likely to notice the ping(since he can hear it too) than he is to see dude moving on minimap he never watches.
Tyrande doesn’t have a niche anymore. She is all around bad pick you should never take. There are always better options available to you. If you want to blow person up take Rehgar, Malf, Stukov, Khara or Uther. They provide better combination of CC, status effects and damage.
Whitemane provides burst heal to counter damage, Tyrande provides yhe most utility for a healer could ask.
There’s a reason why she was perma banned for a long after rework, and not for being “weak”.
Yes and there is reason she is no longer played nor banned. Constant nerfs to her key talents pushed her out of existance. She could give 60 perma spell armor to herself or others, now she gives up to 20 for shorter duration which made the talent worthless. She used to have early cleanse which is now 16. Q CD got increased. Elune’s chosen got duration and heal amount reduced. Iceblade Arrows got reduced AS buff and damage reduction. Notice something about these talents? Even after all the nerfs they got and buffs to talents “special” people pick these are still the talents you would pick on Tyrande if you accidentally picked her.
60 perma spell armor was a niche as it gets and had it’s flaw of just waiting a lot of time to apply it 4 TIMES to get 60% in comparison of 20% armor with a lot of healing chunked in the process at the same time for doing so on a single target.
There’s a difference, big one for a rework that made her at least more than she could do so before even in the healing department as before she would be only picked for as a second healer/support that builds around trait focused and never the meme owl build at all, even in master level.
Also ice blades was 40% dps reduction and 25% speed reduced to 20% attack speed ONLY that’s all that happened to it in the last rework, don’t stretch it being an over dramatic nerf for a talent that is overly as busted as it gets when executed properly 8% reduction 5 times is insane and far more so than a 50% by attacking 10 times big difference, and quite easy to execute too, it is the same question I ask myself why Tracer Get Stuffed is still as overloaded as it was even past the rework she had which is in necessity of nerfs for a balanced tree.
I don’t get it, you use 60 spell armor then we ignore the overloaded double the duration buff to 10 seconds she got in her rework which was nerfed to 8 seconds of 175% and justify it as a nerf for an overbuffed talent for a rework that actually gave a lot of healing with her utility?
It’s not a concept that a healer that provides healing and a lot of utility would result in as expected a must pick hero, a cleanse that can be utilized constantly on multiple targets so early to remove any sort of CC will be mandatory picked in general, instead of being a 60 seconds cooldown cleanse it is instead a every few seconds cleanse with a lot of healing being outputted.
Q CD was increased for an ability that now has twice the value inputted of press Q, how unexpected…
It’s nice to know Blizzard understand how to balance her enough that she sticks in this niche spot for the absurd utility she gives out, if you want her out of it, remove her amount of utility she provides for more healing and maybe she would more of a common pick.
And I don’t understand what is with the allergy of niche being niche, she excels best against melee comps mostly and a lot of targets to keep outputting healing while at the same time provide all the utility that is necessary for the team itself.
Tyrande’s game play is some hard and also need some buff for his healing done.
Also her W and E will be so powerfull if you get right talents and use them correctly,maybe need to some nerf on this part and more pay on her healing done.
You know shes still picked in high level tournaments with cash prizes right?
Some examples
2019 Division S America - Phase 1 - Group Stage 1
Gold Series Heroes League 2019 - Season 2
META Madness #3
Theres mote but thats all i was bothered to look in to
Some of those even were before her most recent buffs where she was even less powerful.
Beyond that, pick rate has never directly correlated with a heroes power. Going back to the chart you probably used (hotslogs), kaelthas should have a crazy high winrate being the second most popular hero but hes actualy got a below average winrate.
For an example in the other direction, gazlowe has a pick rate thats even lower the trynde at 4% but hes hot a slightly higher the avrage winrate.
Same with samuro and vikings.
People just pick what they have fun with. Power level is not the end all be all factor.
Moving on to some of your other points…
I hope you wernt only taking her base damage in to account beacuse that would mean tracer and valla dont deal damage either. First off, her attack speed and range are pretty high. Additionally shes got 3 different buffs at level 1 that can boost her aa damage with hunters mark and both parts of trueshot, one of which is a permanent 15%. Beyond that she can make her AAs do area damage, and even more AA speed at 20. Darnasian archery is also really not as bad as you give it credit for.
Even still, point and click, 15% more damage for your entire team with little to no counterplay is still crazy powerful. Imagine a world where jainia or imperius did 15% more damage to someone. Trynde makes that a reality.
Owl may not be as useful in that environment but its still the best way to safely check boss and other large camps which is something some players are willing to use their ults to do. Its also useful for stalling on some objectives which people are also willing to ult for. Ranger is admittedly not very good but harsh moonlight and empower are both fantastic. Most damage reductions have long cooldowns but empower can be used once or twice in every fight and has a nice slow while empower is just good tank damage. Its not really a build anymore but a toolbox of things you can opt for as needed.
Pros still pick her as mentioned earlier and yes, the pro sceen does still exist in the form of grassroots events and they do still play for cash prizes.
Yeah there are heroes that do some of those individual things just as well but noone can do all of them at once.
Imo her biggest flaw is that her healing is ment to be sustained overtime but that conflicts with the rest of her kit wanting to end fights instantly with a key pick and then a 4v5 stomp.
Shes also very fragile but she needs to be in AA range at all times which makes teamfights shes not in total control of extremely dangerous. Whitemane gets around this by relying on cooldowns where she can retreat after useing and she can heal her self at the same time. Tyrandas healing is actualy pretty good but its very difficult to maintain her high hps.