Same with Tassadar.
I prefer to play current TLV instead letting dev to change them so hard they won’t be the same.
I respect that. I am also not satisfied with the new Gazlowe.
And I really loved the old Tassadar Archon. He was really one man army if played correctly.
Don’t repeat my mistakes - enjoy something you already have.
If you will ask for changes, you may lose what you have and gain nothing.
The 0 death rounds and permanent Archon carry @20 will only stay in memories.
Rotten and forgotten? They got 31% pop and 55% wr in master this patch. Last patch 24% pop and 57% wr. Patch before that 36% pop and 59% wr. Patch before that 28% pop and 59% wr. All that combined 31% pop and 59% wr. Seems to be doing just fine to me.
Hero like TLV or Rexxar that require micro on whole different level are never gonna be popular at low ranks. They are meant to be high skill heroes already by design. Clearly people at master don’t seem to think they need buffs. They are 17th most popular hero with 7th highest wr during last 4 patches at master.
You literally have:
- Me who plays them when my hands aren’t dead from my hobby. Which sadly is rare.
- DrLogan who afaik is “Maining” vikings currently/since Tassadar rework.
Perception problem.
It’s what scares people off from Starcraft and similar games also.
The micro itself on Vikings is easy. The “hard part” is keeping track of people on the minimap and spending more focus on that.
I find when I play the Vikings, the issue is I don’t have that same Starcraft state of mind. Which make them feel hard because I still mentally approach it as a moba/single hero thing mentally.
If you have changes that are viable, I’m all for them. Especially the AOE thing If it is actually possible to do.
I would want more buttons.
Clicking button does stuff.
More buttons would be easier than retraining myself for something that works like zero other things in this game.
If they can do both cool.
You need to spread them better.
Sounds OP.
There’s no way you’re serious.
You want the game to play itself for you?
This is the only one that’s really just QoL and not a stupid buff for bad Viking players.
If you’re having trouble keeping them alive, just cram them all in one lane and micro.
They’re pretty strong.
I’d complain that when all three are in lane they don’t get 3 stacks of their trait for each globe grabbed. Which of course would be a straight buff if they did, which they might not need, but it would only really affect people who play them in a way that people don’t usually pick them for anyway.
They count as 3 seperate heroes for point capture or vehicles and heroe hitting quests, so why not for globes.
I dont play in masters so eh. Thats like top 1% of players. What happens there does not affect the rest of 99%.
What. This is not targeted at only people im this thread jeez. I have not seen any vikings in my past 100 games. Meanwhile there are heroes that have been in like 30 out of 100 games (abathur for example).
So basically LTP. Not like the 4 years of AoE creep has been rough on them.
AoE mages before TLV - 3
AoE mages since TLV - 9
This is counting mage’ish heroes only. Tassadar actually should be added to the latter list so it is 2 vs 10.
No I want the vikings that are not active react to immediate threat. TTK is so fast that you cannot humanely react so fast.
If one of the vikings is attacked, you need to micro it and run away and maybe try to juke some skillshots.
If at the same time another viking starts to get attacked, you have 2 seconds before the enemy appears on minimap and the viking is dead (if its not olaf) without any warning (even RTS have warnings like “your base is under attack”) while your attention is else. If you dont react in the first second, your viking is dead anyway as its too late to escape.
Before this was dealt with bush soaking. Micro one, send others to camp in bush. Now you cant do that as you miss soak.
If the vikings would run away themselves and ping, that would extend the 1 second reaction longer because they would create distance.
This would also in no way affect currently selected vikings, so the no, the game does not play for me. Then splellshield should also be considered game playing itself, because it activates automatically, or Lili QER abilities for that matter.
Of which, outside of QM, you typically only have 1 in each match.
But even still, it is a LTP issue, they’re micro intensive, which is partly why they aren’t picked very often.
But I pick them almost every chance I get in ARAM.
That is a risk you take if you spread them to 3 lanes.
And exactly why I just play them in 1 lane.
Under your suggestion, yeah it would be.
All 3 of them are under your control at all times, it’s not a matter of “currently selected”
And if you want to use spell shield well, you often want to turn it off, and activate it at a good time. Even if you have it passive though, it’s a passive ability, not a whole character.
Which is also a problem, because you only gain 1/3 of the value from trait and bribe. They are designed to not be viable in a single lane early game.
Normally the lvl 1 regen talents give 1hp/s per globe + quest reward (eg. extra max hp).
Vikings get only 0.5hp/s and no reward.
Normally bribe requires 20 stacks and gains reward (eg. lightning rod damage) or have ways of getting extra stacks (takedowns or Arcane Flare)
Vikings need 40 stacks and no reward or shortcut.
I dont think this is fair.
TLV are one of most dominant solo laners if you got good micro. They deal more damage than regular AA hero baseline together and their combined health bar is more than tanks have health. Besides direct fighting you can proxy waves with baelog, scout and snipe wells with Erik while holding point with Olaf.
They each get 0.5 hp/s so really that’s 1.5 hp/s and you can get globes them from 3 lanes. It’s also baseline, they do not need to take talent for it.
You have 3 bodies so you can get the bribes from 3 lanes. It’s also not a mandatory talent anymore given how strong TLV are in TF and solo lane now.
I’m sorry man but TLV are really strong right now. They do not need buffs nor do they need to be made easier. You want easy heroes you can play your LiLis, Jimmies and orb Mings. Not everything needs to be dumbed down to point everybody can use them.
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Fair point.
But I keep my rights to complain about Vikings having the worst trait at the moment.
Their first trait was amazing (reduced death timer), but it was OP, so they changed it to this “placeholder” trait which never got updated.
Only trait worse was the old Raynor trait which was just +1 AA range (it literally said larger range than most heroes in tooltip) while heroes like Nova or Hanzo had 6.5 range baseline plus a real trait.
If you split the vikings between lanes, the 0.5hps is really not 1.5hps. If Baleog takes 100 damage, he would not regen 1.5hps per globe, but 0.5hps per globe.
And while you can and should gather globes from all 3 lanes, if all 3 vikings gather the same globe, it only counts as 1 even if each of them gather it making the trait bad for sololane.
Also their combined AA dps, while the best untalanted and unboosted, even topping Wolf Greymane (no W) and human Dva, is a bit wonky.
I am NOT complaining about Vikings DPS, I think it is balanced. Balanced in a way that they dont have baseline abilities and the fact that most of the dps comes from squishy Eric which can be bursted down, then Baleog, then Olaf. So essentially you can remove like 40% of Vikings dps almost instantly.
Almost any hero can do ~2000 damage burst quickly, so Eric TTK is really really fast.
If you need the proof for fast TTK in HotS, I have a video comparing the burst of every hero in the game.
I don’t take Bribe, I take Olaf the Stout, or sometimes Explosive Attacks.
And I go straight to a single lane with them, at level 1.
At level 1?
No, no they can’t. They generally can’t kill him with one ability rotation.
Erik also has increased movement speed and increased range.
You can focus a little more attention on protecting him.
First, I really dislike the aoe and cc “creep” part. I doN’t think this game suffers from it.
Our most successful “mages”(?) are Tassadar, Cassia, Orphea and Ming. Most of them and their abilities are pretty hard to hit/easy to dodge(/block).
The best big aoe Mages are still Jaina and Kaelthas. Where is the creep than?
Second, TLV was always among the highest winrate Heroes, now they’re even fairly popular next to that. I don’t think we should “qol change” (buff) them.
I mean… if the Vikings can be one of the highest winrate Heroes in a Meta where Orphea and Ming are often picked I think they’re safe.
Third, about the suggestions:
- I like their trait, keep it. Helps to show their role and fill their purpose. Selfsustain is great for a 3 times “sololaner”.
- They do have burst/aoe protection: their Shield, their jump (and their Boat Heroic).
- The “retreat mechanic” is not a qol, it’s just a lazy skillfloor lowering.
I don’t agree with the op.
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