Sustain Needs to be looked at


#4

I play Valeera and I don’t care about other melees having sustain or me not having it. I do just fine.

Maybe just L2P.


#5

Getting “outcomped” in Quick Match in general is a negative experience and something we’ve been actively working on improvements for. Lead Systems Designer Joe Piepiora shared some background on our plans for this in a Reddit AMA back in April-

Both the Hero & Live Design teams have recently been discussing sustain as well, and are looking at it both from the perspective of how it impacts off-lane matchups, and from the perspective of how mana functions in our game as a whole. We’re still early in these conversations so we don’t have details to share just yet, but I wanted to at least confirm that this feedback is on our radar.


#6

[quote=“MattVi-1486, post:5, topic:3683”]
Getting “outcomped” in Quick Match in general is a negative experience and something we’ve been actively working on improvements for.
[/quote]

THANK YOU!!!


#7

Don’t thank him just yet. I have a sinking feeling the only solution to the problem is to match natural counters to each hero to balance the equation out.

You have Alex? The enemy gets Ana.
Enemy has Ana? You get Tracer.
You get Tracer? Enemy gets Valeera.
Enemy gets Valeera? You get Tassadar.

And so on so forth…

The equation balances out but nobody gets to have fun because everyone is countered, which is what I’m worried about the most.


#8

Mana has been weird for a while. Play Li Ming or Tyreal and you have to constantly manage the mana whereas with Sylv, it’s a non-issue - just button mash (hold Q and go).

Other heroes like Lili can get mana blocked early on but it becomes less of a worry after level 16 or so when their mana pool gets large enough that the hearts and breaks replenish enough mana for the next conflict.

It’s been hard for me to understand the current mana system for a while. It’s manageable, but you need to know when to hearth for a handful of toons. It would be better if more heroes needed this than just some heroes like the burst mages.

There has been multiple occasions on sustained pushes where I run out of mana but the enemy can keep using skills like they didn’t even have a mana bar.


#9

Nah nothing crazy like that. There’s an explanation in Joe’s Reddit post that I linked above, but basically our first step is to try and enforce more balanced team compositions to make QM games more consistent and fair.

For example if I queue for QM right now as Kael’thas, there’s a very good chance I won’t have a healer or tank, and the other team will have something like Zeratul or Tracer - pretty painful right? If we made it so that you always (or almost always) had a healer and a tank on your team, those matchups suddenly become a lot less one-sided.


#10

Sounds fantastic, hope it’s true and possible.


#11

Wow, thanks for a good response. But I have a question.

Is there any insight you could offer us into encouraging people to pick tank/support roles? From my point of view - a big problem with the QM mode particularly is that majority players only choose to play squishy range assassins and there’s an overabundance assassins.

I have personally stopped playing assassins all together in QM because I always get 2-4 ranged assassins than 1 melee assassin.

Edit: It seems like people don’t want to pick counters themselves and continue with the mind of “I want to play my hero all the time regardless of the enemy team/map.” - if you’re noticing a trend in QM. People refuse to pick a different hero.


#12

No more all assassin shenanigans? Works for me.

Will there be an incentive beyond longer or shorter queue times to motivate people to play more tanks and healers? Something similar to the random option that we have currently?

Personally I don’t mind that, because honestly how my QM games usually roll out is:

  1. Winning stomp, no fun and not really satisfactory.
  2. We win but I’m usually the one getting countered the most. One time I had to play as the kerrigan tank, I died incredibly quickly but the combos I setup won us the game. Not play is not fun.
  3. All assassin, who can hit who. Not fun imo.
  4. Out compositioned, one side gets illidan, the other 3 flavors of blind with rounded enough kits that puts basically illidan on permanent hold.

BALANCED COMP IN WHICH EVERYONE HAS FUN<<<
Rare but optimal standard.

I just don’t like games where an entire team can easily shut out one player for playing, then their team blames them even though there’s realistically nothing they can do about it.

It’s really bad when your entire kit revolves around teamfighting, unable to waveclear or get mercs.


#13

people mainly play flavor of the month in qm regardless if there was a system in place to encourage more tanks and healers in qm nothing really works other than say a new tank or healer release then u see more healers and tanks in qm its what ever is new you will see more of for a small time or what is op

there is only one good easy fix i can see for this issue and it dont apply to qm


#14

You see how this opens up a whole new can of worms when you start tinkering with the rules?

You enforce mandatory tank and heals for the Kael so he doesn’t have to worry about being gank food anymore, which is fun for him, but at the same time, that also means that the people who enjoy playing Zeratul or Tracer specifically because they enjoy ganking easy targets like Kael will have their experienced lessened because now they only get matched against targets who can escape.

You see what I’m saying? I just don’t see how you can tweak the rules without someone having their gaming experience ruined.


#15

I was a fan of this matchup a few days ago in QM.

´https://i.gyazo.com/ab2eacefc9d78e8807b62ad539b72431.png´

Tracer: Countered by Valeera, Greymane and Raynor.
Genji: Countered by Valeera.
Fenix: Countered by Valeera and Raynor.
Butcher: Countered by D.Va / double tank.
Stitches: -

Not just that, but they had TWO tanks. A strong front line, while we got 1.

A match literally lost at loading screen. Who thought it was a good idea to have one team with two tanks, and the other with one? Then the bad luck of having hard counters for each of the assassins in my team… lol.


#16

It is way more than mana, etc. They cannot recover QM because they created way too many heroes around the wombo combo.

Take Deckard…spam AoE slow, spam AoE root, and a heroic that sleeps half the map.

And just look at every hero created in that vain of huge AoE CC, etc.

QM is lost.


#17

Dude - all you do is complain. Maybe if you spent less time complaining and more time studying the game and focusing on getting better instead of making excuses. You wouldn’t be having so many issues.

I’m a filthy casual who only plays QM a few times a night yet I’m verging on master MMR.


#18

I’m a filthy casual

Then you should probably remain quiet. Nobody really cares about your virtue signaling approach to this topic. It is a problem, if you don’t perceive it as such then good for you, now let the adults talk.


#19

But you know what? Screw that. There are heroes that are built around having a frontline, namely mages. Zera was designed to be part of this system in which he isn’t mindblowingly powerful when paired against people that can’t respond to him, it was never fun for anyone who was a mage to match against teleporting gankers that would 100 to 0 their HP bar, I don’t see how leveling the playing field so that they have to try is a bad thing.

If the game was all assassin matchups, zeratuls and other gankers would rule because the alpha and poke would simply keep literally all other assassins out of the game. That’s bullshet.

I say people that abused the QM for all assassin matchups have had their fill, this is a good step in the right direction for people that actually want balanced matchups and I’m pretty sure you’re just saying this to be a doomsayer.


#20

Man, do I miss forum mute. Maybe you should stop being such a troll. I rather listen to myself talk in the mirror than listen to someone literally complain all the time instead of trying to get better.


#21

Hail Blue post.

Wait you’re purple now.

Hail Purple post.


#22

“Complain all the time”

Where? Just this one post? You’re identical to other 200000000 people I’ve met online. Hyperbole, virtue signaling, thinking you’re too cool to side with the people that express criticism towards something, thinking you know better.

You have no arguments, just go play some more QM you self proclaimed “filthy casual”, let the adults talk.


#23

Wanna use specific examples of me virtue signaling? Cause you’re misusing that phrase and it’s quite hilarious.

So come on. Examples please. Go to any forum I posted in and prove my hyperbolic actions and “virtue signaling”.

By the way, being a casual player doesn’t limit anyone’s knowledge or skill of a game. Since I’m master rank - I clearly know what I’m doing. And don’t bother trying to look my account on hotslogs. It’s not there.