Well I achieve the same thing with his quest, the range is huge and it is not wall-depended.
Yes please buff my main solo laner! He’s so weak rn. Sindragosa is weak dragon, fire > ice.
(he’s one of the highest winrate bruisers in masters if you filter level 10+)
In any case arthas is a good tank with either
A an enemy filled with frontline aa: kerrigan, xul, Thrall, kinda tychus, illy, butcherartanis. These comps just arent too common.
B with a support. Aba hatted arthas is deadly. Medivh also makes up for his weaknesses (burst and mobility)
He’s also a fantastic bruiser. Not sure why his popularity is low. He beats almost every solo laner or at the very least turns it into a skill matchup. His teamfight isnt as strong as imperius and his camp taking Is also average.
By playing him braxis went from one of my worst maps to one of my best. zerg wave + a good sindragosa guarantees fort + keep walls.
3 Likes
I always find that comment interesting because Garrosh is proof that an immobile hero who lacks a reliable peel can still be considered a popular tank.
Army certainly does dramatically enhance his tankiness. It makes me wonder why i “feel” tanky with muradin before getting avatar. I guess most healers have poor output in the early game and Mura’s trait helps alleviate that stress
It’s not the same thing.
Accelerando means your enemies can almost never avoid push off + sound wave, and they also can’t catch you when you’re trying to run away.
The virtual stun plus pushing them towards your team has a lot more value than the extra range on your AoE. And because you move with 40% speed, you can always keep in range of your allies, so Party mix becomes moot.
Accelerando has much more applications and value than Party Mix can give you.
Being wall-dependent is a non-issue since you wouldn’t pick Lucio on maps where you can’t wall ride anyway. Just be warned that once you start using Accelerando, you won’t be able to stop picking it.
Nice! He can be very powerful in the right hands.
Im not sure either but im glad because he gets buffs
On ranked I have a 66% winrate with him over 140 games mostly running the solo lane
If I go him as a tank I pick him with a solo laner who can stun. Like misha imperius dehaka
I never take rime because the lvl 1 W rewards does more as a tank, I pick icebound if heavy cc or Q build if im facing lots of AA heroes
In the solo lane I pick 80% of the time frostmorne hunger. Currently all 3 builds are good there.
(W build , AA and Q)
On 13 If my teammates are reacting good I reward them with the W lowers armor
If we need dmg the E talent
If we need a better slow the D talent
On 16 Q or E
What do you usually take?
2 Likes
Agree with your build. In solo lane i go trait/ q build. Q at 4.7. Trait at 1,13. Skill gap is a bit bigger for me since im not fighting masters so i can get sindragosa, but if its a close fight army of dead.
For maintank i agree w is better. Rime is very hard to justify. Then i go for e talents at 4, fortitude at 7, 13 like you said if theres followup armor, 16 roots.
When do you go aa build in solo lane? The ones at 4/7 are always tempting for me but i just stick with q for safety.
1 Like
There are a few issues for Arthas:
- He doesn’t create a point of tension when he uses his cc.
When a tank uses their cc, most of them also come with some other ability to then force the engage; heroes like muradin, diablo, garrosh, etc can isolate a hero which can signal allied heroes to attack and force enemy heroes to react.
An arthas root isn’t the same thing; he usually roots from a distance and the root wears off by the time he could get into position to do something else. That isn’t to say the opportunity is weak, but Arthas drafts tend to have the root follow something else, so he’s more a follow-up than an initiator (unless Sindragosa is the leading ability but that’s just for stopping structures! /s
- No hard cc
He doesn’t have any stuns, silences or displacement to interrupt other abilities. Funnily, since many tanks do have movement abilities as part of their cc, if they get rooted their combo can be interrupted or outright prevented. However, Arthas’ cast animations are also on the slower side (consequence of ranged effects) so he’s the one more likely to get interrupted by enemy tanks instead.
- Other tanks keep getting more pve power
One of the big points for Arthas used to be his waveclear. Jo stood as a mark of a hero that used to have it as an extra option, but the effect became baseline and to a certain degree, that just made her fill part of the gap Arthas used to have (she has a similar ring-based control, uses slows, and has cc with a cast range)
Now other tanks are getting more or better pve options to try to increase their appeal. Meanwhile Arthas remains on his frozen throne (so to speak)
- No compensation for the armor stacking shift
Granted, Arthas usually isn’t defined by having armor (anymore) but other tanks that did have armor effects could either stack with other buffs before, or in the absence of that, have since been buffed. Some of them have gotten better versions of block, and arthas – the first to deviate from the generic (with his Rime) is arguably the furthest behind now.
Honestly, if the Death’s Advance changed lvl 20 was moved to a lvl 1 talent, that probably wouldn’t get players to bat an eye at Arthas, let alone think it breaks him. Similarly, if Icebound Fortitude were pushed to lvl 1, he probably wouldn’t break the meta [as a solo tank]
So here’s a suggested mini-rework cuz reworks fix everything 
Talents
-
Level 1
- Rime (Passive)
- Removed
- Icebound Fortitude
- Moved to Level 1
- Eternal Hunter (Trait)
- Adjusted Functionality:
- !Quest: When Frostmourne Hungers reaches 120 bonus damage, (30 stacks) the amount of basic attacks empowered is increased to 2.
- Adjusted Functionality:
- Rime (Passive)
-
Level 7
- New Talent: Frozen Pulse (W): Gain a charge of block (75 armor) for each hero rooted. While Arthas has block his movement speed is increased by 25%.
-
Level 16
- Frostmourne Feeds (Removed):
- The functionality of this talent has been rolled into The Eternal Hunger Quest at Level 1.
- New Talent: Asphyxiate (W)
- Enemy heroes hit by the center of Howling Blast are rooted for an additional 0.25 seconds. After the root expires, enemies are silenced for 0.5 seconds.
- Frostmourne Feeds (Removed):
-
Level 20
- Death’s Advance (E)
- Adjusted Functionality:
- The 10% move speed increase now stacks with other movespeed effects.
- Adjusted Functionality:
- Death’s Advance (E)
(The “center” on the suggested lvl 16 talent isn’t something like brightwing’s area, it’s just so the lvl 1 quest on Howling Blast doesn’t count.)
Some of the trending changes in the game have been to enable some heroes (typically assassins) to have options increase their self-reliance and cut down on the amount of talents they need to pick to enable a particular effect (such as boosted damage on slow)
With on-slow damage boosts shifted away from allied heroes to proc them, that further hurts Arthas’ unique appeal for the constant slows he could provide. So if they’re getting shifts toward independent buffs, and at earlier tiers, then I think it makes a bit of sense to impose a similar adjustment to Arthas: give him an earlier option for mitigating his cc and movement speed concerns.
Part of the issue of Icebound is that it competes with his other lvl 7 sustain options, which can then feel like he needs his lvl 10 to compensate for the lost sustain that talent usually brings. While garrosh might stand out in comparison for having his sustain tier compete against his Unstoppable, he has a later tier to still pick additional sustain or damage mitigation.
In fact, in writing this far down, a lot of tanks now have options to debuff enemy heroes that then decrease the amount of damage they can deal. Arthas doesn’t have that option; his gimmick is slowing attack speed, but even other tanks can usually pick up something to do that too.
So in that regard, other tanks just have talents that let them do things Arthas could do, but he doesn’t really get options to do things that they can do.
Between what he already lacks, and what he can’t get from his talents, it isn’t that surprising that he doesn’t ‘feel’ like a maintank option. If anything, he almost feels like a talent tier behind, but some of that could be as a byproduct of other heroes getting some of their talents adjusted (rolling in functions that used to take 2 talents to get) while he’s remained almost the same since the time he lost baseline armor. His Q has had some ranged adjustments, and some mana tensions have been tweaked, but some of those changes do seem to come later than other heroes, or rather, behind the buck, so when he’s brought to ‘caught up’ something else is already shinier instead.
3 Likes
Arthas is just super boring to play.
Even something as boring as johanna has crazier possibilities.
Pick sindragosa. The animation alone makes the hero fun.
(Hots confession i have never played warcraft so idk much about either arthas or his dragon)
1 Like
Because if someone wants to tank with frost, they’re going to pick the shiny new hero, Mei, who happens to be the superior choice in most situations anyway.
2 Likes
I think Arthas need more strong CC,Slow and Root are not enough for a main tank,I suggest to add Silence CC on his kit which also fits the character of a dead knight,also Frostmourn Hunger Trait is low,need buff like movement speed and heal restoration.
If the enemy has a lot of mobility or far ranged poke Q build
Otherwise AA build
1 Like
I agree. I would argue that he was an awesome tank before mobility creep. Tracer and Genji, and the like that came later, really messed him up. His frost blast is super slow and easy to dodge, it’s his only hope at closing a gap, and the only way he shines is with the bruiser build. Sindragosa, rocks at pushing.
I think other things have made him irrelevant though. All the most recent heroes bring a great deal more self-sustain, more damage, and greater control. Arthas is slow and easy to dodge, but when you do get up close with proper positioning he can deal a surprising amount of damage.
If Death Coil could blind or slow and incorporate the increased healing talent as baseline, Frost blast could incorporate a 75% slow decaying rapidly after the root, and his aura incorporate the 4th lvl quest as baseline so he isn’t mana starved (even, sometimes, with the bruiser quest), he would largely approach Mei’s kit as it currently stands without her 30% heal+unstoppable and her mobility.
yea, felt like very mannered buffs, but still too careful, and leaving him still slightly underwhelming. So, i think buffing a little, what is a good base concept, until he’s scary would help him easily.
I think you have to outplay hard if you are outnumbered, even with your healer backing you. Otherwise, it can be rather interesting, if you can close the gap to the enemies, and still can then land and follow w root easily. but this is maybe too situation/skill demanding at highest level…
yes, i feel it needs to be a better burst damage/heal, baseline without having to wait for 16 just to make the tier 1d (closer to wc3 dk). for that matter his tempest also feels overtuned at max slows (40%?? 
), and you could then justify buffing coil as a rebalance of his base kit. would also help with his fabled ‘lack of engage’ since he can buff his team’s ranged dps as they go in. 
it’s a big skillshot with a lot of timing involved, making it feel limited to siege-use only 
. but to make it go off faster to be effective is literally the difference of 0.1s, even 0.01s. (Maybe using in vision and even pointblank is something i should try more…)
yea i feel like the ghouls are too temporary and need to stay around ALOT longer, as if another unit, which they are originally in undead race/tech. Call me crazy, but 15s seems like almost half of what it could be. If the enemy kites you once you pop ghouls, then what’s your ult going to do, get you a free wave, some siege that can be defended with those structures under threat, or mercs capped solo? Hardly too strong considering lower tiers can give bribe already… Imagine army lasts 25s? 
Then if you have to make the cd real/fit/longer to go with a more real ult, so be it (although 80s is long). But let’s not leave it a weak ultimate?
Yea, i feel like his E effect is amazing cc. However, it’s even busted, too strong, and this forces him to be weak elsewhere and thus, too niche… i feel like DK should be one the most basic/rounded/viable in the limited tank roster.
another reason why i think coil should be buffed, even if slightly, since it’s mostly used for self-sustain, and could allow you to reach 10 more safely, and without relying on one build (Q styles).
questionable… considering the raw tank-style sustain and uptime of rime, but this is what i’ve heard mostly - ppl prefer root quest.
I think so, too; all are strong, not just -armor. (E will also give more macro/pve damage). Same with 16, too, really, since D 100% buff basically - more damage, more slow (with 13), more mana (buffs whole kit, almost like zera ‘Might’).
maybe he just needs the slightest of changes, idk, but i feel like these are some of the areas at least. his last buffs (free coil talent, rune tap, root range, 20 slows+movement speed) felt like… ameizing, tho. 
really want this hero/class to be great
(basically: reduce E max slows to 30-32%, buff Q damage/heal value and/or 1s less cd, shorten cast time on Sindragosa 
, increase duration of ghouls ult at 10) 
1 Like
Arthas? who’s that? 
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Yeah, that’s usually the play and why he is not used that much in higher levels/pro play. Usually people at lower levels don’t understand that, but better players just disengage when Arthas uses army. Same thing with nanoboost and some other ults.
Army is not, like, bad. It is just not that amazing. I like this idea of making army last longer.
2 Likes
Yea, we thought so, he’s almost unknown.
Also, imagine they made an Undead skin for Whitemane… 
“Death Priestess”
Considering Arthas is immobile tank, he suffers from magic poke the most. Even Anubarak doesn’t suffer from AA heroes like Arthas from mages.
In most cases Arthas loses most his HP before reaching enemy mage. If he doesn’t try, he will eventually lose his HP too fast from tanking magic damage.
If you look at tank role, most tanks have some kind of mobility. If they don’t have mobility tools, they have something to compensate for the lack of this.
Stitches has hook to catch someone and he can absorb a lot of damage and heal a lot.
Garrosh has armor and he’s more dangerous in melee than Arthas because his Q/E/R. Plus he has Unstoppable at 4 so it’s harder to stop him from getting someone.
Arthas…
His Q’s healing is weak if you don’t build around it.
His E works on melee only.
His W is pretty delayed.
Of course Arthas has Magic Shield at 20 lvl, but it’s too late + it’s easy to waste and put it on 60 seconds CD.
Sure he has armor on 7 level, but… it’s not enough.
If Arthas gets more mobility (from his E for example) or some kind of magic protection on the early levels, he may become more playable over other heroes.
Currently, I prefer Arthas in my team as off/solo-lanner. I have very little people who I can trust to play Arthas as main tank (Karabars, Harbinger for example).
4 Likes
If an Arthas uses army before the fights starts I coudnt call him good 
Usually good arthas players hit it when they are in the thick of the fight
You can still disengage from that, since he needs to use it still kinda early. Basically because he needs to walk to the enemy, he takes too much damage and need to ult.
2 Likes