Should I learn Fenix?

General Discussion
21

No I didn’t. I never played raynor. I literally know 0 things about raynor. And this is literally my first time playing/learning fenix.

Why don’t you properly do research before you spew accusations like this.

Don’t be “that guy” because you clearly don’t have the required skill set to be “that guy”. You’re a that guy wanabee. Git gud before you try to be a “that guy” again.

You’re getting bogged down on specific mechanics instead of role/playstyle. I consider all suicide dive assassins that need someone else to initiate first the same. And yes that includes most melee assassins (I wouldn’t know. Kerrigan is the only melee assassin I ever played)

Whether a hero is ravage into ultralisk+pull+stun into chrysalis or whether a hero is warp into slow+rightclick is irrelevant. They both dive in with some form of CC and try to snipe the squishy until they die due to not having an escape and can’t go in first nor can they poke and must dance around until someone else tanks the alpha strike before they can do anything.

To me that’s identical despite one relying on rightclicks and the other on a bunch of abilities.

Circling like vulturs/hyenas for an opening and going all-in for the kill without a way out.

I was wrong about the sgt. hammer comparison. But I’m right about Kerrigan.

If your team is a bad team (comp-wise) and no one can take the alpha strike. Then you just lose the entire fight without doing anything because going in = suicide, or you take the role of the missing tank and go in first and die without killing anyone because you’re probably one of the tankiest non-tank/bruisers in the game so if someone has to go in first, it should be you. Just like Kerrigan.

I agree. He’s my favorite hero by far atm.

I don’t get the looks I get from playing Nova.
I’m not on a 100sec cd like Kerrigan.
I’m a tide turner if played like a pro.
And I’m not a draft-only hero like Azmodan. Azmodan is trash in QM.
Or like Valla. I think QM Valla is trash too. Without dedicated protection she’s a worse Nova (Q build) or a fail AA (no.1 blow up target. If I see a AA valla I suicide myself to kill her.).

22

Okay then in that I’m mistaken, but you don’t have to get all defensive about it. That will only do you a disservice.

Besides my point still stands. Your comparison is very bad and misses a lot of points of what makes Fenix strong. It’s one thing to say “I’ve never gotten good damage numbers on him” and then saying “Fenix doesn’t have good damage numbers, he’s as weak as Hammer”. Your gross overgeneralization is what makes the tone of your post very patronising and presumptuous.

The truth of the matter is, Fenix has more consistent DPS than Hammer. And even if he gets lower damage stats, which is very unlikely considering even his base AA speed is higher than her, he would have done a much more significant amount of meaningful effective damage against his enemies. Damage that actually kills them or pushes them to back off.

In what world can you say Fenix is a clone of Hammer? because what? They both have % damage at 16? They both have AS increase on 20? Their primary damage is AAs? So does Raynor, Valla, Falstad, Greymane, and Zuljin. It’s not an uncommon talent derivation for a 16 talent. Does that mean they’re all clones of each other?

Also, false. Fenix literally has a teleport and Sgt Hammer, tho mostly immobile while sieged, has access to thrusters that can allow her to escape almost any situation. She also has on demand unstoppable which you should take anyway playing such a vulnerable hero. Fenix is also encouraged to stutter step and none of his abilities, aside from Planet Cracker and Warp, tho only for a very short period, forces him to stand still.

Hammer is not only good at killing squishies, she’s good at abrasive warfare and creating a back off zone for your team to slowly push. It just so happens that squishies take the brunt of that because their HP is low enough to only be able to take a few hits. By your logic, even Tychus should be only good against squishies.
And since when do both Fenix and Hammer sucks in early game? Hammer’s range and Fenix’s high early damage output and shield gives them an advantage when everyone else is still lacking damage, sustain, and range. They’re good early game heroes, Fenix more so in particular. They’re also late game, yes with Hammer getting better 20 options. Doesn’t mean Fenix is bad, just means he has a more linear power scaling.

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23

No, you still aren’t. Kerrigan is heavily combo based whereas Fenix is not. He’s a hero that does well at range and doesn’t require any combo’s to be effective. Just hit your lazer, AA the enemy, and teleport to chase or flee. He’s more of a clone of Sylvanas, Valla, ZJ or Raynor in most respects.

Kerrigan is an all in melee combo hero who does well as follow up CC for the frontline and diving in with other dive heroes. Kerrigan’s pull stun combo is crucially important for her to be effective.

Ideally, Fenix should never be trying to tank whatsoever. He has no business going in first because that’s just going to end in a death in most cases. Fenix is a ranged hero and should be played as such. Kerrigan goes in first because she will do no damage at range, so she has to regardless where Fenix does not have to (assuming she’s the only melee and there’s no bruiser/tank).

And Azmodan is probably more tanky than Fenix as he has more base health (Fenix’s shield included). The only thing that would make Fenix tanky is the fact his shield regenerates and can get back into the fight quicker, without hearthing. Neither should try to go in first, or dive the enemy. If its an all ranged assassin match with no frontline you’re just going to get blown up doing that. The only time Fenix should dive is when he can finish a kill. Warp Warfare at level 7 resets your E after takedowns and allows for an escape.

24

You’re saying open with Q and W in later even when going full warp build?

I will say I’m wrong about the kerrigan comparison if fenix opens with Q not W. But if he opens with W he’s kerrigan clone.

Aren’t you supposed to open with W? That’s how you gonna land your entire plasma cutter and 4 seconds of right click no? I’ll experiment and get back to you. I’ve been going in with W first and Qing right after.

You forgot Fenix’s 50 armor upon warp in. That makes him tankier than most assassins. And even with it he won’t survive the full 4seconds so yeah I agree he has no business going in first, but if your team is being picked apart by genji, someone has to give your team an opening to do something.

edit: meant E not W

25

yup, once he gets the 50% armor he is that one person on the team who should take that big risk of going in if your tank is a coward or you have no other front line left (tank is dead)

it doesnt make him immortal but he is very, very tanky for an assassin with it

combined with the lvl 20 extra shield bar upon fatal damage, if you manage to refresh the 50% armor with takedown and warps he is very difficult to take down even with cc, doubly so if his healer is alive to support him

the difficulty of mastering fenix lays in knowing when that offensive warp is well timed, and when it’s just feeding

people who only use warp defensively or do not play his offensive armored warp builds are destined to never master his full potential, he is a teamwipe hero just like genji who has to pick the right moments to go in, but that moment may never come in certain matches

3 Likes
26

To me the only similarity he has to Kerrigan is most people suck at playing Kerrigan and Fenix.

When you play against those mains who actually know their **** and chunk down 70% of your health bar in a blink, man does it suck to play against them.

For the same reason I don’t really fear most Alaraks or Zeratuls , he is an incredibly dangerous hero but only in the hands of a few people who use Might of Nerazim perfectly (or perfected the art of dragging you with Telekinesis and have huge sadism bonuses all game).
And since I play gold-platinum drafts I know my odds of meeting a good one are slim, so I never ban him either.

I’d rather ban solid all rounders who can be easily mastered by most people. I hate facing Johanna, Rehgar in particular.

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27

To play safely, yes. Why warp in first with E and then not have it for your escape? Q applies a slow to the enemy which allows for decent chase as long as you give it enough range. If you can’t finish a target off, warping in with E can help you. If you talent for it, you’ll get armor and attack speed with the Repeater Cannon AA and should be able to finish off the enemy. If you also talented for the E reset you’ll have your E again after the takedown.

Fenix’s W isn’t an ability, it just changes your AA type from single target, to AoE, so he can’t really “open” with it. Another difference with him and Kerrigan. I don’t think he’s remotely close to how Kerrigan plays because they both require completely different play styles.

And also super susceptible to CC now, because he’s right in front of the enemy’s face and will die tanking all the damage with no escape.

In order for Genji to “tear your team apart”, he needs to dive. His AA’s and Q’s alone don’t do much damage. And how is diving the enemy team while Genji dives into your team helpful? He can negate damage and has another way to escape. Unless Fenix gets a kill/takedown (requires talent), He’ll be a sitting duck.

28

Thats why you dont warp in unless you got backup or are skilled enough to know you can get a kill and then warp out again. Its like Tracer but reversed.

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29

I meant E not W. I don’t know why I thought warp was W. Maybe because it starts with W.

He dashes in. Then uses his protection to tank whatever ability we have. Then he uses ultimate to dodge more skill shots. And while our team is heavily damaged from all that and is moving to not get hit by his ultimate, the rest of his team has ample opportunity to join in and kill anyone. And then Genji leaps over a wall to safety and then dashes back in later to secure all the kills.

These are 0 tank games btw. QM, 4 assassins, 1 healer. Genji is like god tier. I dare say he’s even better than butcher in QM.

So yeah he will single handedly tear the team apart because he is unkillable, can safely blow up heroes with 0 risk to himself cuz assassins don’t really have a stun which safely lets his team do their stuff which in turn puts our team in pick-off range of the genji when his stuff are back on cd.

1 safe kill turns the game to a 5v4 and it’s just a downward spiral. I hate genji. My most hated hero.

30

This just doesn’t seem like a likely Genji play. Maybe if the team he dove into was low health… but at full health Genji wouldn’t be able to do enough to be worthy as someone who can rip teams apart. With an Aba hat maybe, but this scenario as a whole just seems unlikely to me.

Maybe. He’s definitely not bad in those matches due to his survivability.

He doesn’t have enough raw damage to single handedly destroy a team. He is a great finisher and can capitalize with high risk high reward play style for sure. But I mean unless he went full W talents, stood in a Ming R the whole duration with all 5 enemies around him I highly doubt he’d be able to single handedly tear any team apart He can annoy the crap out of heroes like Jaina or KT, but against a hero like Sylvanas assuming they can hit either their MC or WA, he isn’t as much of a bully.

Even then, for that Fenix play you described, I don’t see how Fenix diving in to the enemy team is a useful thing to do.

31

Amen.

My favourite moments are when enemies flee with low health and your team are chasing. Using the beam in front of their escape point to cut them off.

You can just see the enemy player’s brain processing. They run back away from the beam towards your team mates. Realising your team mate is chasing they then try to hug the edge of the beam. Eventually they realise they are a trapped rat and accept fate. It’s fun to watch.

I just wanted to put on the record that I enjoy Sophia’s posts. It gets the conversation rolling and us talking about our favourite heroes. Sure the analogies are a little off but the impression i get is that the posts are from a player who is having fun trying heroes that are new to them.

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32

I enjoy them too. They’re always an interesting read and it makes me want to play the heroes they post about.

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33

Games are balanced around tank/healer/dps comps. Not around clown fiesta comps. Genji and Butcher are all heroes that are god tier if you play 5vs5 dps teams againts a team with no self heal or escape/stuns.

He wont do that kind of stuff againts a proper team.

1 Like
34

Ok, poking with Q works. You can’t jump in without Q so if you poke with Q you’re committing to not jumping in for the next 10 seconds. But you’re also not jumping in without a full shield so it becomes moot. Poke with Q, run away til shields are up and look for an ultimate opening during that time, then jump in for the kill.

Ok so he’s not like kerrigan because kerrigan has no poke option.

Chain warping doesn’t work either cause without the slow they’re gonna walk away from you.

Fenix is very fun. Where is fenix btw? Where is his head located on the body? Can’t find it.

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35

Fenix is in the mech. In starcraft, dragoons (the unit fenix is based on in hots) are essentially combat spider tank wheelchairs that protoss (mostly the zealots) use to keep fighting after they are wounded.

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36

Your Q range is equal to your AA range I believe so while you’re using Q to poke, you should be able to AA at the same time. Then use E to dive in or E to escape if they dive you.

More like in the body lol

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37

My favorite thing about planet cracker is that it’s a self-root punisher.
Triple Tap? BWAAAAAAAAAAH
Pyro Blast? BWAAAAAAAAAAAH
Butcher charging in with chain? BWAAAAAAAAAAAH

I get such a high when I successfully kill someone with planet cracker like that with 0 wombo. So addictive.

But his body is a basket on legs. Where is the butchered zealot body on the basket on legs? I don’t see a cockpit or anything. His other skins are even worse offenders XD

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38

Essentially Dragoons are fallen protoss, placed in a exoskeleton mech filled with liquid that their mind controls. Fenix’s entire body is inside of the mech so… his brain is in the “body” of the mech.

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39

I’ve never played Starcraft but I do find the lore behind it fascinating. SC reminds me of some fairly unconventional sci-fi universes that have complex word building mixed with some whimsical and farcical elements. Or as Artanis would put it “I am intrigued.”

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40

Fenix is giving me greater appreciation of Nova and Jaina and has improved my game with them.

Playing Fenix, I missed Nova’s ability to poke squishies from behind soooooo much. Fenix has no way of poking squishies.

Playing Fenix, I missed Jaina’s wave clear sooooooo much. Fenix cannot for the life of him kill mercs. His ball barely AoE kills regular waves. Trying to use it to AoE kill mercs is sooooooooo painful. Cutter helps but it’s nowhere near enough.

Anyways I think I’ve had enough of Fenix for now.

You guys are wrong though, Fenix is 100% a lategame hero.

Without 7 he is a ranged creep that does nothing in a fight.
After 7 he can deal damage but cannot take it so will die to all manfights. He’s like Tracer, if the guy is smart enough to turn around and right click you, you need to run.
After 13 he can now beat all manfights so the tide turns. Everyone now runs from him instead of him running away.
After 16 he can now kill tanks. He cannot before 16.
After 20 he is one of the best sustain DPS monsters in the game.

So when you say he needs to make plays early game, I say nah, you’re wrong.

13 is minimum. 13 is when he starts being a threat. i’ve killed so many Vallas and Lunaras after 13 because they thought they could take me because my shields were down but nope, one warp and they die to the manfight.