Under what circumstances is 1 - Elune’s Chosen not the right pick?
I have a few simple examples of things that deter me from taking it. I don’t like taking Elune’s Chosen when:
- The enemy team has a lot of Blinds (usually not enough of a deterrent by itself)
- The enemy team has a threatening enough front line that I’m not confident I’m going to get Basic Attacks in when I need to heal my allies
- I’m not on a map where the objective is near things that I can Basic Attack to get value from non-Heroes
Arizona Jackson on the job!
But isnt the heal reward of everlasting light too underwhelming compared to elunes chosen?
If a ally in trouble with elune you can make him a lot tankyer, with everlasting light you need to sacrifice your first heal to heal your ally in need or use the double heal to a heal him but then you still have nothing extra to help him (except maybe a good lunar flare)
I personally prefer Mark of Mending on maps like Dragon Shire or Warhead Junction where dueling are much more common; in smaller skirmishes the self-healing can bring in more sustain over long fights and, the fewer the targets, the more likely it’ll be for an ally to be attacking the same target, so they then do get the Marked heal.
While Elune’s Chosen can still stand out for higher throughput, it’s also a lot more likely that tyrande will take more damage, so having that self-sustain from mending helps her keep in longer fights while still leaving Q to be used as needed.
Part of this comes down to the team comp itself as 2-2-1 splits aren’t an obligation on those maps, but if it turns out that way, it works well for tyrande since she can still get a global heal and debuff from across lanes.
Honestly, these are more likely situations when you don’t want to pick Tyrande at all.
Everlasting Light is fundamentally a bad design. It was probably designed to promote good Q management like this:
- You quickly use first Q on one target (probably meant to be target in smaller danger with less chance to die) and immediately after that the second one with 60% bonus healing on target in bigger danger.
However, the problem is, it is always better to simply cast both Qs on someone in danger than doing this, because 200% healing is always better than just 160%. Meanwhile, you can use Elune’s Chosen on the target in smaller danger.
Everlasting Light bonus healing is 153. On the other hand Elune’s Chosen heals for 96 per AA…
I think if you want to make Everlasting Light viable and also make Tyrande generally better in situations you mentioned, change Everlasting Light to simply grant 3rd charge of Light of Elune.
I agree, well said. It feels more like a nerf when picking this over elunes chosen then a decent alternative talent choise.
Elunes Chosen is picked for high risk, high reward ally, like Greymane or Kerrigan. If you are missing such an ally or/and you end up in pokewars, Everlasting Light is great. Problem is you dont really pick Tyrande for such scenarios. Similar to Tracers healthpack, QM/when draft kicks you in a nuggets talent. I like it a lot when enemy comps lets you AA often. First Q always on yourself, second on ally. Pretty massive single target heals actually, especially with CDR.
That said, not a fan of EC nerf.
You pick EC for every hero in need. Not only divers but mostly for your bruiser and tank. Tanks take the most punishment so they take a lot of healing
Yeah but tanks take a lot of damage all the time. EC is high heals in relatively short period of time. If you care about tanks, EL can be better. Tyrande and EC are picked in aggressive blow up comps for a reason - momentary but high value. With EC you better kill that 1 enemy asap.
EL is also great entry level talent btw, which I find very useful to have.
Actually Elunes Chosen is picked because it just helps her non existent sustain. If you had to rely only on Q to heal, you go oom extremely fast. Elunes Chosen used to be a level 7 ability and was still a must pick, now that it is a level 1, it could just as well be baseline.
This could actually be a nice buff to Tyrande, since she fell really hard after they changed her cleanse to level 16.
Not an issue, you simply dont use w just because its off cooldown (borderline useless in tfs early) , same as e, same reason as Malfs. Thats Tyrandes basic mana management.
Yep, and even then you will go oom just because her Q doesn’t heal that much and your team is very likely to need them.
I think you’re overthinking it a little. Isn’t it more likely that Everlasting Light is simply is intended to boost your team healing? As long as you’re healing multiple people it gives a solid 30% boost to your total healing output, no real strings attached.
Except there is a string attached: Q has to be used on a different target.
Elune’s Chosen already heals one other target (Elune’s one target, Q another one) and it only takes 2 attacks in that 8 seconds to match the talent value, or 4 attacks to get a comparable spike to what Everlasting light could do till Elune’s is off cooldown again (30 seconds later) (attacking for 3 out 8 seconds) A big weight off of Elune’s chosen is that it heals off of any target hit, and not just enemy heroes, so it’s more likely tyrande can attack anything than find scenarios that Everlasting gets value over her other two options.
While the idea holds that Everlasting stands out if tyrande can’t attack much, any situation in which she can attack (for cdr) is enough where Elune’s, or even Mark of Mending, break even with what Everlasting Light would do, but, they don’t have the condition of denying their own potential healing or essentially have anti-synergy with Kaldorei Resistance (using both charges to stack the spell armor on one target)
That could be a little different if Ranger had pierce baseline (so Tyrande can use that for cdr more often) or if Moonlit Arrows boosted the cdr on her basic abilities, instead of her basic attacks, so those could be alternatives for getting Q cdr without getting attacks in.
But the issue is that the current values on Elune’s Chosen, and Mark of Mending, only take a few attacks to match Everlasting, with more potential to exceed it. (some heroes get more healing in 1 second of attacking the marked target than Everlasting light provides) If the talent added a third charge that would shift some of her later talent synergy; if the healing boost applied so long as Tyrande didn’t heal the same target twice, then it would encourage different situations to set it apart from her other lvl 1 options.
But since her other options already emphasize healing an additional target, and tyrande generates her healing from attacking as is, they have more situations that they stand out in doing something than not.
edit addition: instead of 3 charges as a suggestion for Everlasting Light, the 60% heal boost could be changed to just refund one charge of 1: if the second heal is used on a different target, then Tyrande gets 1 more Q. That way the effect is still conditional, gives it a slight healing bump and curtails some of the potential for her to reach 3 stacks of spell armor on one hero via Kaldorei resistance.
Great response. Personally I love Everlasting Light. You can’t always depend on hitting people to heal your allies.
I disagree with the idea that it’s almost always best to spam both your heals on 1 target, that’s not my experience.
People say that if you can’t AA that much you don’t get value out of Elunes, but I think they forget that if you can’t AA that much, you also can’t Q that much. If you drafted Tyrande into a comp that you can’t AA, you’re pretty much doomed.
you don’t need that many AAs to reduce your Q’s cooldown, whereas with Elune’s Chosen you need AAs for the whole 8 second window to get value.
Yeah, but if you can get enough AAs to reduce Q cooldown, you might as well just go Elunes and get Q cdr + Elunes healing.
Elune’s Chosen heals for 96 per AA. It lasts 8 seconds and Tyrande has 1,33 AA speed, it gives you 10 AAs and 960 healing. Her Q heals for 255. You can see that 3 AAs with Elune’s Chosen actually heals more than casting Q.
Now, Q has 16 seconds CD and each reduces it by 1,5 seconds. From my experience you need at least 4 - 5 AAs to get any meaningful CD reduction, you can’t wait. Basically this:
You have to heal different people, but you can’t rely on multiple your teammates taking dmg.
Anyway, Elune’s Chosen on competent teammate usually means you don’t have to heal him with your Qs and you can spent them on someone else. It means you heal multiple people at once, but unlike in your case you don’t have to care about casting each Q on different teammate.