And even more which hero they play. Some heroes are all-in, like Diablo or Artanis, so even when their team follows up and gets kills, they often pay for it. Other heroes are designed to be sort of OK to die on, like Leoric. Generally if someone is going to die in a fight, Leo is the one you want to be staying in as long as possible, due to his trait.
In addition, some heroes are far more dependent on their team following their lead than others. Garrosh won’t be getting a lot of kills on his own!
I play all of the tanks, and my KDA is kind of all over the place on them. As expected, Diablo has my lowest KDA and Anub’arak my highest. That is due more to how those heroes are designed, than any major difference in skill.
Yes and no, but it’s more like Hoku said that it depends on the certain heroes than roles. Defensive tanks as Johanna or Mei have good chances to survive and not die too much, because their kits are overloaded with survival, while offensive tanks as Tyrael or Diablo could die more often, not only because they have more aggressive kits, but also their trait encourage them to die. Same goes for melees, while a hero like Ilidan, who is squishy can die a lot, but heroes like Murky or Samuro shouldn’t. Sure Murky can potencially die a lot, because he will be back in 4-5 seconds, but he has a great health regeneration and E is one of the best escape abilitys in the game, so he has good chances to not die, if he knows what he is doing.
Makes sense, but I would like to know where your KDA on Mei/Joh is. My tends to be around 5, because it’s hard to die with this heroes, while my KDA on Uther or Leoric is around 3.
Whatever, man. Your commentary is pointless, in my opinion, as you don’t play the game. I don’t understand why you’re even here. Any assumptions or guesses that would make sense is either weird or sad.
I mean, like, you have almost 4,750 posts, but you don’t even play the game. That’s 4,750 posts of basically saying irrelevant things that don’t matter.
But you do you, if posting on this forum as some sort of socialite or whatever is a way you enjoy spending your time, then go ahead.
Most of my tanks hover around 4.0 KDA. Mei is actually one of my lower KDA tanks, mostly because I play her extremely aggressively. Johanna is one of my higher KDA tanks, because you really have to try to die on her, and I tend to play her more as a zoning/counter-engage tank.
Same here lol. My kda with Diablo is only 2.8 while I have 5.18 on Anub. My kda on Jojo and Mei are both around 5.15/5.18. Even Garrosh I am bad with I have 4.0 with.
Kinda like mine, so it seems you also struggle to die with Mei and Joh. I wouln’t call myself a feeder, but with heroes like Leoric or Uther I tend to have a KDA around <4, because Leoric can trade his deaths for other heores and Uther has no way to get out and also can get trait value.
This is such a stupid answer that I see all the time. It’s like saying a quarterback is padding his stats by throwing multiple touchdowns in a game.
Those stats are how you win the game. How do you “pad” kills? Oh, by getting kills? No one is getting mvp by doing a bit of extra poke damage to an enemy tank. No healer is winning mvp by taking extra damage so they can heal it. The only way a player gets mvp is by participating the most in the match.
If youre going to make a claim that an argument is stupid, have an actual argument that isn’t stupid.
MVP based on a an algorithm created by blizzard. Your quarterback example doesn’t fit if the quarterback isn’t doing so in the attempts of stat padding because he cant. A stat padding quarterback would simply be passing the ball for the sake of passing the ball to “pad his stats” even when the pass is technically a “horrible choice” but because he could he did it, and in this scenario it wouldn’t matter to him because he did his “job” succesfully because on paper it is still considered a “succesful pass;” if his teammates fumbles after catching it, he can therefore simply blame his teammate (which is what happens in this game). This doesn’t happen in real life because real life has reprecussions and his team would hold him accountable for such a horrible choice. There’s also the fact that MVP tends to have a human element to it unlike the MVP screen we have now.
Many ppl in this do pad their stats just to say “hey, I’m doing my job” unfortunately, padded stats does not equal a job well done. It’s not unheard of to have a Li-ming get MVP because she went glass-cannon orb build, dealt 100k+ dmg, had no death and top siege dmg with no death but 0 kills as well but because her stats are high she would most likely get MVP because her role enables her to be able to do more than other roles. Take a Lt. Morales for example who can make all the best plays, yet still doesn’t get mvp because in comparison her kit limits her utterly.
How often have you seen somebody get MVP but then an alternative team member (or enemy member) gets top votes even when a party is involved? This is a frequent occurance constantly seen. Algorithms don’t work because they can be abused by the players once ppl understand how it works.
I personally do not care if MVP exists. Whether it stays or leaves makes no difference to me whatsoever. But I do not pretend like MVP has actual merit. Sometimes it gets it right, but most often than not, it doesn’t. If you wish to live in the illusion that MVP screen is reliable then go ahead do so, no harm is done to me.
but how else will we congratulate the guy who picked Ming for picking Ming?
we all need 10 seconds of awe and admiration for how good they were at clicking Ming at character select.
(this is from my aram exclusive perspective, pick ming, get MVP, bravo!)
but yeah MVP screen is useless, atleast let US pick the MVP.
if they really want an MVP screen then it should have ALL players there and WE can give people a thumbs up.
(thank your healer!)
I’d personally would like to have the option in settings to skip to the menu rather then using up uneeded time staring at an endscreen that can’t be skipped, I think people who like the mvp screen should have their mvp screen and people that don’t shouldn’t be forced to have it aswell.
Additionally I think the mvp screen and voting screen should literally be the same screen, I don’t know why there is a transition for it, just extra lag on my already 10 year old computer.
I played hots for 3 and a half years already, never had MVP screen glitch force loss happen once, and never heard from anyone I know that MVP screen glitched for them resulting in a loss. MVP exists so people like OP and you can get mad because you think it matters so much but you’re never on there or the voting screen
Because im not going out of my way to search for it just to prove something to you. I don’t live to validate myself to you, your royal highness, especially when you can’t even provide a proper counter argument. You go live in your fanatasy world where the HOTS MVP screen is an actual accurate assessment of who was the most valuable player in the game.
Most players are out of there so fast they almost never see they got voted for. I’ve seen many players miss they received “epic” and “legendary” votes.
Mostly likely not. I still feel it’s better than what we have now as everyone has a chance to be acknowledged. I would love the MVP screen to be more useful and tied to a positive merit system for HOTS, but there is little point suggesting or expecting such a big change with how little HOTS is currently supported.
Best way to discredit everything you said in one sentence. Lol.
I have no idea where people like you get the impression that everyone in this game does damage, soaks, pushes lane just for the sake of being MVP instead of playing to win. What exactly is wrong with azmodan who pushes lane succesfully, ming who deals big damage (having no kills can simply be a result of incopetent teammates or good opponent)? The only time I ever saw someone btch about it is when the team lost (for whatever reason). But when they win nobody says anything at all. Do I see “stat padding” or is it just salt?
Comparing subjective votes to algorithm is stupid. The fact that somebody cosiders someone better does not mean the algorithm is bad. Actually it is better because it is objective, it measures everyone’s stats equally. When the winning team votes for vegan Butcher on the other team for feeding and winning them the match for the sake of further trolling, does it make him the MVP in objective sense?
The thing is, the algorithm is fairly bad when analyzing which player contributed the most to a match. By its very definition “most valuable” is subjective, so any objective metric will miss things. Is a tank who soaks a ton of avoidable damage “better” than a tank who knows how to dodge skill shots? How do you rate the proper use of things like Auriel’s Crystal Aegis or Anduin’s Leap of Faith? Is a Thrall using his root on CD “better” than one who uses it to initiate or as follow up CC?
There are too many things in this game that are just too dependent on context for any algorithm to calculate accurately. As an example, here is one of my weirdest (and least deserved) MVP awards.
Yes, I had zero kills, and less than 8k hero damage. I was showing up for fights when needed, as can be seen by my assists, and I was rotating to soak, taking camps, and keeping the Zeratul occupied, so was contributing to winning the match. But I can’t honestly say I was more valuable to the team than our Kharazim, or that my contributions were the main reason we won.
Too true, although this wasn’t the acknowledged problem with PBMM, many players especially in higher ranks quickly worked out what metrics were valued and could pad their stats to satisfy the algorithm. It’s not too dissimilar from the MVP system, it’s why you will more often see a Nazeebo, Azmodan, Ragnaros and so forth as MVP over Tanks or Healers.
It’s just very silly too as I’ve lost track of how many times a healer on a winning team will have top kills/assists, heals, zero deaths (ahead in all stats) over their enemy counterpart. However, the enemy healer makes it on the MVP screen instead for something like “silencer” or “3 clutch heals.”
I am a bit strange in that I love the weird awards, especially the ones you don’t see often, like “Sole Survivor”. It is irksome when the 12 death Genji gets “Escape Artist” for the 7 times his healer saved his butt!
But to go even deeper into why any algorithm is flawed in determining which player is better, I like to use tanks as the best example. One thing I love about HotS is how every tank has a unique design, kit, and playstyle. This makes for a lot of dynamic tanking matchups, but how exactly to do decide which player did better, other than by which team won?
Garrosh is designed to mitigate damage, where Diablo is designed to be a punching bag who can heal it back up. When played at equal levels of skill, the Garrosh will have much lower damage taken, because his armor means the hits will not affect his HP the way it will a Diablo. Does this mean the Diablo was the better tank, because he took much more damage but had the same number of deaths? In addition, Diablo’s trait means that if he dies at full souls, he is back on the field in seconds, so has an overall lower “time spent dead” than the Garrosh, even if they died the same number of times at roughly the same points in the match.
Tyrael does hardly any CC compared to an Anub’arak, but offers his team less tangible benefits such as move and attack speed. Both are tanks best used in hit and run or dive comps, but is the Anub “better” because he won the “Stunner” end screen award?
Don’t get me wrong, I actually enjoy seeing who is awarded what, and voting on the end screen, but like you, I want to be able to choose from all the participants, not just the few the system has decided are deserving. I would rather have an aggressive healer who is providing damage, utility, and clutch heals that turn team fights, than a passive Lucio who has the highest healing in the game from just existing in my back line.
I wouln’t call myself a feeder, but with heroes like Leoric or Uther I tend to have a KDA around <4, because Leoric can trade his deaths for other heores and Uther has no way to get out and also can get trait value.
