Player level criticism on whitemane debate

[AnemoneMeer-1481]

You are aware that whitemane ALREADY wants to AA as much as possible because her AA’s heal her teammates, yes?

The problem isn’t “Whitemane now wants to AA.”. The problem is “Whitemane now wants to use AA’s in place of her spells”, and “AAing is extremely powerful relative to her abilities.”. Imagine if Azmodan didn’t want to cast All Shall Burn because his Auto Attack did more damage. Not simply a risk reward case, but not even having a reward for taking the risk and spending the resources. Imagine if they gave Orphea a talent that gave her Max Chaos all the time and severely increased her AA damage, so using spells, and therefore not AAing, caused her to LOSE damage.

That is the problem. There is nothing wrong with AAing. It’s a core component of whitemane play because it fills time between your abilities cooldowns while still providing damage and healing. The rework makes it so that you literally don’t want to use your abilities because they take up time you could spend AAing.

[HOMEGALULTS-1266]

I never really liked the stack on q on whitemane and how you have to space them out to avoid running out of mana too quickly.

High inquisition talent that remove the q stack on e was just a (mandatory) gimmick to not have to worry to much about mana.

I don’t think that the rework fix what I didn’t like about whitemane, but maybe the aa build could be fun.

[MHM-21795]

High inquisition talent that remove the q stack on e was just a (mandatory) gimmick to not have to worry to much about mana.

It wasn’t mandatory. The other two talents were fine. Indulgence meant you never ran out of mana against heavy frontline and Unwavering was good against dive and the mana reduction was decent enough that she didn’t have to back more than other healers.

[Aulus-1929]

Just because all ranged heroes want to use their AA when it’s safe and opportune to do so doesn’t mean every one of them needs an AA build which then forces them to take risks to AA or not get value out of their hero, and that’s the direction they’re going in.

If you don’t see how they’re lazy, easy to implement builds which do nothing but homogenize heroes further I don’t know what to tell you.

[Darak-11211]

@AnemoneMeer-1481

Yes, she can deal a lot of damage overall. Reckoning has always had that factor, and with judgement day buffed and several targets hit, as well as her crazy buffed autos, it’s not hard.

But it doesn’t change the fact that’s only her auto attacks. Her abilities don’t hit anywhere near that. Her autos are hitting for crazy damage with full zeal stack, and I’ve legitimately posted videos showing exactly that. That doesn’t change that her spells are godawful in this version.

So it is just a matter of nerf one, buff the other. Just need to wait for the live numbers so Blizzard can do it 3 weeks after release as always. This is just standard for reworks/releases. No need to worry about that.

@AnemoneMeer-1481

Things get put on the PTR to be tested and give feedback. I’ve seen more blizzard representation on the subreddit since the PTR dropped than I’ve seen in weeks, had replies directly to my statements, and have even had videos made and posted just to show how much of a mess it is.

Yeah I saw that, but like, they are basically saying for people to test it live so they can adjust numbers in the future. That’s basically it. And if the rework becomes a failure like that chromie one, they will just rework her again after months, like they did with chromie.

They don’t change things based on PTR that much unless the numbers are very very off, like how it happened to Hanzo or Orphea. But like, back in that day we had a lot of people playing PTR, much more than now. They can’t really change things based on videos made for really specific 1 v 1 situations and not real games. And as they even said, her numbers were the same when they tested them for months internally.

I’m pretty sure the rework is coming. It’s tied to an event and all that. Don’t think they would ever cancel or delay it.

@AnemoneMeer-1481

Personally, I want them to delay the rework, rework it into something that will not be a one build disaster, and put it back on the PTR so we can take a second pass. I’ve already written up my own version of the rework using a lot of their ideas and put it on the subreddit, so it’s not that all of the ideas are bad, but it’s that the numbers tuning is godawful, things got taken out that shouldn’t have been, and two of the new talents are incredibly toxic in their current design. This is not some blanket refusal of everything and desire to see her exactly the same.

Like I said, it’s pretty unlikely that they will delay the rework. Remember what happened when the exp changes were announced, tested at blizzcon, tested in PTR, tested with custom real games, tested everywhere? They still happened

@AnemoneMeer-1481

I am not against Whitemane being reworked. She needs a rework. I am against this rework in particular. Because it is not a healthy rework that will make her more interesting and unique while offering better talent diversity. Her talent picks are less diverse. Her role is less unique. Her abilities feel worse to use. This is not simple napkin math. This is my thoughts after actually testing her. There are good concepts here, such as Inquisitor’s Prayer, Scarlet Wrath, her new level 20 active. But they’re chained to a mistake in how to balance her base stats and abilities.

Again, all the testing needs to happen in the live version, in normal games, in normal situations. PTR testing is always off. Even if you got 2 ex hgc teams to scrim with the new whitemane it would be off. Finding builds and synergies takes time, and even though some things seem pretty op and the only option in PTR after several tests, sometimes when it hits live that build is not even used. That happens. We really need the live testing before we can say anything for sure.