Ideally, the category size wouldn’t matter at all. As far as truly new players are concerned, even categories as basic as tank, healer, bruiser, assassin, and “other” would be enough if there were better descriptions and explanations built into the game. Rather than endlessly dividing up the heroes, I would much rather see resources put into teaching people how and when to use them.
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Is any of this a ‘real’ problem? Like Hoku said, descriptions and explanations are enough anyway. Hell, if we want to be really nuanced about this, DOTA has only 3 classes (strength, speed, and intelligence). We’ll all learn eventually, but the current system for assassins is too broad, which is my entire point.
Most of the melee assassins are just assassins. You could literally move Tracer, Genji, and Nova over to it and be fine. I think a split between those who are good at auto-attacking from a backline would be a good separator too (you know, like literally every other moba does).
For what?
Well for one, to break up the ‘ranged assassin’ category into something more meaningful then “they have ranged auto-attacks”.
Secondly, because I feel a ranged DPS has a completely different role on the field. All the ranged DPS I mentioned (save for Cassia and Tychus, who are more nuanced) have the same role as marksman would in other game. Mages are a little more complicated, but I feel separating them into heroes that deal heavy ability damage and have weak auto attacks is a good way to define them.
There are mixing and matching, yes. Junkrat has the awkward position of do you classify him as a dps (because his auto attacks do hit pretty hard) or a mage (because he does draw the bulk of his damage from abilities). However, I ultimately feel a uniform on this will help break up the massive class into something a little more helpful.
I just wish that instead of Melee Assassin/Ranged Assassin, they split them into Assassin and Mage for ‘mostly physical damage’ and ‘mostly spell damage’. Would be a lot of more useful in my opinion.
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i would just add role bruiser and it would cotain assassin bruisers(thrall,rag,…) warrior bruisers(sonya,…) and specialist bruiser (xul, gazlowe)
I’d be fine with this, honestly. I like the 3 categories because I feel that encompasses every facet of the game classifications, but I’d be fine with that distinction. The term ‘ranged assassin’ just seems so arbitrary because they’re judged by their auto-attack and not what they’re bringing to the fight.
They did try forcing comp on QM (the only mode that this categorization would make sense). But the result is a much longer queue time. So they disabled it. Now you would want to make it even more complicated? And for no good reason to boost.
It’s the player’s responsibility to come up with counters to fight against the odds that were put in front of them. The thrill of overcoming such challenge is the greatest reward they are looking for. Otherwise, even in mirror match, they would still complaint that the MM was rigged to put them at disadvantage.
https://heroesofthestorm.gamepedia.com/Ranged_Assassin
It’s simple and effective. Then if you enter the page you will see what those heroes do and what is their specialty. And they said they would have a description in game too. I think that’s enough for new players to understand what they are playing.
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Sooo by this logic, Raynor and Li-Ming can fulfill the same role.
Wait…
Also, Ataraxia, this has nothing to do with QM… outside of maybe changing daily quests. I’m not talking matchmaking, I’m talking about the up and coming class redesign.
Yes, actually. They fullfill the ranged assassin role. Now, if you want to see what they do in that role, you will look at the description that says one is a sustained dps and the other is a high burst agressive mage. I see no problem with that at all. We don’t need to go into really specific roles as long as the role we have already describes how the hero is played in general.
roles should be:
Tanks: high HP that can peel and could solo tank at least a little.
Bruiser: heroes like sonya who have good hp and survivability but can’t protect the team.
Marksman: Ranged auto attackers.
Mage: ranged attackers who use spells as their main damage source.
Assasin: melee damage dealers, especially heroes that dive, like zeratul.
Healer: people who heal.
Support: people who help the team with things other then blunt healing, like tassadar and tlv
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And then I would argue what’s the point of the class system to begin with? They could have really just gotten rid of specialists and called it a day. Saying someone is a ‘ranged assassin’ signifies nothing about what they can do other than their auto attack is at a range.
The gameplay difference between several as these are as stark as the difference between a tank and a bruiser. Why, then, do we need to distinguish between Artanis and Diablo, but need no distinction between Raynor and Li-Ming?
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Following your logic we should also have new roles for tanks. Dive tanks, meat shield tanks and counter engage tanks. We could also have roles for bruisers because they all don’t play the same. Let’s do it with healers too, sustained healers and burst healers. We could also make new roles for supports, melee assassins and so on.
The new role system is meant to just put the heroes in the role that better suit the overall role without being too specific. A lot of heroes could fit different roles too, and that is the reason they will put them in the most suitable role and use sub roles in the description to explain a bit more of that hero.
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The same way as Anubarak and Arthas the Tank role. Or Lúcio and Uther the Healer.
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Except no, we do not. All tanks more or less perform the same role distinguished from bruisers. Same with supports over healers. Uther and Tassadar may both be supporting characters, but you’re not gonna pick Tass for the solo healing role.
This is NOT the case with ranged assassins. Saying Gul’dan has a ranged auto-attack means nothing. If you attack with your auto-attack with Gul’dan, you’re going to be doing almost no damage. It highlights the very key question of “Should I be concerned with using my auto-attack?” or “Should I be more concerned with attacking the tank, the group, or the squishy backline?” There is a distinct reason why every other MOBA (besides DOTA and hots) makes this distinction.
Again, otherwise, what’s the point of being nuanced even slightly at all? Why have 6 roles when 3 (Warrior, Assassin, Support) would be just as perfectly sufficient?
Except that’s totally not true. All tanks have really different playstyles that fit different comps and maps, and that forces your whole team to adapt to that. Imagine picking a heavy dive team and drafting stitches as main tank. Following your opinion we should have separete roles for them.
Guldan has ranged attacks, so he is a ranged assassin. There’s no problem with that.
You should always be concerned with using your AAs even if you are not a heavy AA hero. Everyone should AA, even supports. Every little bit of damage counter and can be a huge difference between a kill or not.
Assassins should be concerned about using their sustained abilities to hit whoever is out of position and using their burst abilities to hit whoever gets engage on.
And again, following your opinion, a tank player could think “should I dive, play slow and be a meatshield, focus more on waveclear/rotations or wait for the enemy to engage so we can counter engage?”. It’s the same thing you accept it or not.
Because tanks and bruisers have a really different main role in the game.
Because healers and supports have a really different main role in the game.
Because melee assassins and ranged assassins have a really different main role in the game.
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And DPS, AP, and finishers all have a different main role in the game. Congratulations, you’ve reached back to square one. Even you admit that the outlet of their damage should be put into different spots, and that’s very important. You wouldn’t pick Abathur to do a main healer’s job, you wouldn’t pick Artanis to do a main tank’s job, and you wouldn’t pick Raynor to do a mage’s job.
No, their main role is being a ranged assassin.
No, actually, stop trying to force things to make your opinion the “right one”.
Never said that, now you are trying to force things even more. Will consider this just trolling for now on.
Now you are forcing it²³²³²³². I wouldn’t pick Artanis to be main tank because he is not one.
I would pick either both Ming or Raynor to be a ranged assassin, which one would depend on what I want to accomplish, but both fit the ranged assassin one.
After all that I’m just tired of speaking to a wall that don’t want to understand the MAIN ROLES and just want its opinion to be right because they want (just like pretty much all the trolls who post in the forums).
Also, it already took blizzard years to do a simple role rework, they would never change it do be a whole other thing.
I won’t reply anymore so don’t bother, will just call that a troll thread as many others.
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I understand that role classification can give a rudimentary shorthand to seeing what a hero can do. However, I find it odd for a part of the community to be so hyper obsessed with categorizing. As if you name something, something a little different, that somehow magically changes the hero.
Maybe it’s just me, but when I play a new hero, I play it in QM more than a couple of games, and decide for myself what role they can fill. I couldn’t really care less what some person has decided how they are useful if I’ve found my own niche for how that hero can function.
It’s as if the lack of hyper categorizing, the naming of a class and supposed “redesign”, that actually has a significant impact on the game. For the most part, it just doesn’t. If you want to pigeonhole heroes into little discrete boxes rather than celebrate the wealth of diversity that should be lauded in a hero brawler, that’s just doing a disservice to yourself and creating a myopic and limited understanding of the game.
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