I love data. I love that you can try to parse out the information to see trends and correlations to how that might influence the outcome of game. But that’s all they really are, trends and correlations, they can not definitively point to success. In your example, I don’t see you being at the mercy of MMR. Every game you play, gives it more data that dynamically adjusts with all other players. It’s kind of beautiful.
These ideas tend to come from players who think they know what they’re doing. They look at the score screen feel bitter that they’re carrying their team and lost. But ultimately, you lost, so I don’t think you should be rewarded for that. It’s a tough pill to swallow sometimes, but that’s the truth.
It’s a very selfish kind of perspective frankly, where you’re not playing the game, you’re playing to prove how you’re better than your allies.
The most important variable, which encapsulates all other variables, so yeah.
I like the current system because dmg differences, soak percentage and stuff you mentioned are still (based on) raw numbers, can be statpaded by bad plays and certain Heroes are at an advantage over the others. Way harder than it is worth imo.
On the otherhand, the current system might be slow, but on the long run can highlight individual performance more reliably.
Like sure, you lose games cuz afks, trolls, bad allies. But you also win a similar amount due to them (being in the enemy).
And since you’re not like that, your team has a “constant good player” and 4 randos, while the enemy has 5 randos, so getting the disadvantage is more likely on the enemy’s side.
I dunno what is the @Op’s skill and rank, but I and many others I know could and did carry games and climb. Insane games can be carried by the right moves, decisions, trades and value gathering.
So the “issue” what I’m seeing looks more like mere player frustration and scapegoating.
It’s been addressed before and you can’t seem to recognize it.
Dying for team mates, sacrificing waves for ganks, creating space on the map, drafting accordingly, controlling vision, dodging skill shots.
They cannot be quantified, but are important parts of game plays.
The thing is, you can carry, so it is more like “if you lose you didn’t play well enough”.
If you think you’re better than the mmr range/rank you’re at, you can play “well enough” to carry your team. If you didn’t, that’s somewhat on you.
If you can’t carry, you’re at your lvl or really close to it. After all, you’re supposed to win only half of your games against ppl who are similarly good/bad at the game.
Um… those things arent recognized now either… in fact nothing is. Except whether you win or lose. Under this proposed system, winnning/losing is half the points awarded… so those intangibles that help your team win… are still rewarded.
Case in point: Diego Maradona, considered the best footballer of all time, was hired by SSC Napoli for the 1986-1987 season, a gutter tier team in the italian Serie A who had never won anything in their 59 year history.
They won not only the championship of the league, they won the Italian Cup and the Scudetto all in 1 year. He also finished as top goalscorer in the season.
The team has never won anything since he departed or before him.
1 good player absolutely can carry in a team game. Even in a game where he is merely 1 player out of 11 (in HotS the odds are far better: 1 out of 5 teammates)
I know you think you’re being clever with this question, but what’s funny is that people who play well are already rewarded by winning more. That’s really what it comes down to.
The ability of this game to carry is limited and far outweighed by your teammates ability to lose the game. The concept of an MMR for the team is a flawed concept.
Tell me, what is the average strength of a chain that has 4 metal links and 1 cardboard link? There is no average strength… it is simply the strength of the weakest link. Blizz designed the game this way.
This discussion has been done to death and always ends with “well, Grand Masters don’t count”, but see Fan’s stream to completely disprove that notion.
He can not only carry low games with ~99% win ratio, he can do it with one hand without touching the keyboard at all.
For argument’s sake, let’s even say that a player couldn’t. Are we going to have refs pull out their measuring sticks and go over video playback by how far they were from different players at any given time, and measuring their speed, to how tall a player is, and how many passes they had at which angle, who had the ball the most, and then award you a score. And soccer is sooooooooo much less complicated than HOTS.
Or just clap when a team wins.
It’s just a poorly conceived, overly complex idea to pad the egos of people who want to be recognized for every granular detail of how special they are.
It’s like I’m in Groundhog Day and the same thing is posted every two days.
You can’t just make a blanket statement like “there is no carrying in HotS”, then when proven otherwise say “well those guys are really good, they aren’t included in this”.
I don’t think I could, unless all other players in the team were lowish bronze. Doesn’t mean other people aren’t capable of it though.
If even one person is capable of doing it, that means HotS is carriable. You just need to be vastly higher skilled than the opponent, in which case you could even overcome AFK’s.
As for those report categories, you should still report an afk even if you manage to win the match, as it ruins the spirit of the game to have people leaving.
My bottom line is only winning matters in HotS, how you get there stat-wise is irrelevant (see cheeses like Medivac rushing etc. where your team ends with 0 kills to their 25 and still wins).
The other 50% they miss out on by losing is also huge. The intangibles you keep talking about are rewarded by winning.
This argument that people would stat pad to lose the game… in pursuit of more points, makes no sense. So no, (hopefully for the last time) no player will be able to climb the ladder in this system by losing. Or even if in some weird scenario they could… it would take 700 years to get to the next level.
You base that on what? And if hypothetically you’re right… how limited?
My skill lvl is around low Masters and I experienced otherwise. That’s why I climbed. That’s why ppl can climb.
4 randos as allies, 5 as enemies, if you consistently don’t cause loses, the enemy will lose more than you. If you don’t cause loses.
Doesn’t matter because the enemy has a higher chance to have “cardboard” links and more of that than you.
If you’d be right, ppl would be unable to climb.
I climbed from Gold to Masters.
I carried games with two afk allies while the enemy had none.
The weakest link is not the deciding factor, because the chain-parallel is flawed. The weakest link’s mistakes can be balanced out by someone’s good plays.
One of your allies dies 1v5? Let’s gank someone, or make the enemy split first by using macro pressure to even things out.
The average player wastes a ton of time not gaining value which could be achieved.
Our ETC disconnected on the first minute and I still didn’t give up. We beat the enemy by a big margin mostly because I kept ganking enemies or ambushing them before an objective started.
If I can do this in platinum vs people my rank, on Tychus of all heroes then imagine what Master can do in gold games or lower like Karabars.
This wasn’t meant to brag but only to show there is carrying even if a teammate disconnects.
And I am not Grubby, Fan or someone who is a legendary gm. I’m just a normal scrub who practiced on some heroes a lot.
