I personally am not a fan of this anomaly as a whole, but the core changes do add some new flavor. The other structure changes make the game far less exciting in my humble opinion. I think you should at least do the following:
- Change all structures to prioritize Map Objectives before anything else
Infernal Shrines especially feels wrong right now. John Cena is leaping gates and messing people up. I want to help him. Bless John Cena. But if I attack his target I will be dead faster than you can say “SHE GOWN”!
3 Likes
Three things, my points of view:
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The towers, forts, and keeps reducing armor instead of slowing movement speed is a great change. It does more damage to the invaders as a whole while at the same time giving the invading players more control (it’s not a cc) to play their heroes and make calculated gambles
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Forts prioritizing heroes instead of minions or mercenaries is something I’m still on the fence about. On the one hand, it’s always been a little strange how in HOTS you run to your structures to save them just as often as you run to them to be saved. An allied structure should be helping you. On the other hand… it makes 1v1 lane matchups less rewarding to win. You bully an opponent to his half of the map, but once he’s near his towers it becomes nearly impossible to continue, even across a long period of time. Like I said, I was on the fence about this, but I must admit I’ve come around to it. If you leave this particular detail as-is for the future, I’d probably be OK with it.
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Now most importantly: Structures SHOULD always prioritize objectives over heroes. This is something I’ve been complaining to my friends about excessively; I’ve always griped how weak early game objectives are, and since these changes they’ve become even weaker. The first Punisher and Immortal, in particular, are a complete joke now! Please make this change! Personally I think the structures should focus bosses over heroes as well.
One other thing… I’m not 100% sure if they fit into this topic at all but I’d be remiss if I didn’t at least mention them, since we’re on the subject of structures
- Can you please do something about fountains? Can you make them indestructible until the accompanying fort/keep is destroyed? Or at the very least only make them destroyable once its gate/front towers are destroyed? Defending these things in the early game is not fun at all. The dead player returns within seconds (if he dies) but the fountain is gone forever and it potentially affects all 10 players.
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I agree with what others are saying. The forts/keeps should keep a weakened version of the anomaly but front gates should go back to the way they were before. Honestly if they just weakened the armor reduction id be for it to stay though. If you keep things the way they are then some objectives (infernal shrines) need to be more powerful.
Part of what i like about the changes is that they make defending more viable during some objectives. If they prioritize objectives then it’d take out one of the more important parts of the change. If they were a bit weaker with armor reduction tanks could have more of an incentive to dive while also having to be careful not to overcommit. (rn there is none because the armor reduction is too high and theyll get blown regardless of advantages).
Thanks for your information im glad community gets a say in this!
In my personal opinion the towers are fine. Hero balance however is not fine. There are too many heroes who can easily get out of tower mechanics and almost exploit the very reason they exist in the first place. I think it would do the game alot of good to balance cooldown timers across the board for all heroes. Why does it make sense that one hero can execute 3 abilities in the same time that it takes another hero to execute two abilities?
I think the current system is fine but like others are saying the armor debuff is such a massive force multiplier and extra punishing to characters who’s survivability is firmly tied to armor mechanics.
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Please remove exp orbs!!!
It makes it a lot harder to play Abathur!!!
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Personally I really enjoy the changes, though you hit the nail on the head with some of these solutions to make them feel less punishing. The best way to go in my opinion is 1.
Change all structures to prioritize Map Objectives before anything else
This really keeps to the identity of HOTS. The reason why Haunted Mines was flawed was because the incentive to do the objective was low. In the current patch, it can feel as though most objectives that are meant to be pushed with are far too weak. Battlefield of Eternity was hit the hardest in my opinion, it’s now a much better idea to go to the opposite lane and push separate from the objective.
I don’t think it will be too confusing to both new and experienced players. Objectives are loud, flashy and prominent, and provide very visible effects. Maybe add another color laser for towers when the objective is the target?
I’d also love for the armor shred to be slightly less punishing. Capping at 30 or maybe 25.
Keep up the good work, I can feel the love from the dev team in this post.
2 Likes
I personally think things should revert to the way they have been for years. Not only that but some of the drastic hero changes you’ve made, such as turning Tassadar into an assassin, just ruined the character. If you’re going to keep the changes you’ve made, i really think you should remove the fact that the forts and keeps attack stealth characters when they are stealthed.
2 Likes
I’m fine with the way it is now. You could scale the front turrets down a bit to make them do less damage, or like you suggested, #2 but just for the front towers.
I like knowing where your heads are at… More of this please 
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Haha that would be epic.
Give every minion an unique name too, not just each unit type. Every. Minion.
And a backstory… I really want to know who these guys are.
Don’t worry about giving them each an AI though!.. Not yet anyway.
Here is my feedback:
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I overall like the system, and would prefer if it stayed. As long as it gets some adjustments.
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The core mechanics are too inconsistent on different maps. While some cores just create annoying “danger areas”, which you should (but can easily) avoid. Other cores can actually hinder the enemy team. Volskaya has 1 of the most consistent mechanics I’ve seen, constantly pushing melee heroes away from it, delaying its demise. While ToSQ has an AoE with ridiculously long wind-up time, that barely tickles enemies, even if they don’t bother to avoid it.
What I like about the system:
- It feels better in general to have some sort of protection from your friendly structures.
What I don’t like about the system:
- Incidental AoE makes structures focus you.
What I think about your ideas:
- (1) seems like a decent idea, and I wouldn’t mind seeing it. I disagree that it will be counter-intuitive, because personally I feel like that this is how it should work.
- (2) is also not bad, and I will even develop this idea later in my feedback.
- (3) this one I disagree with. Yes, forts and keeps do hurt. But I don’t really feel like they are too powerful, and in need of a nerf. If anything, sometimes they even feel a bit underwhelming. If there is a low HP enemy, next to a fort, I have no problem to go in, get the kill and go out, most of the time.
My suggestion on what can be done:
- I’ve already mentioned this in several other threads, but I’ll repeat it here as well:
- Make towers, forts and keeps prioritize objectives > minions > heroes.
- Give forts and keeps a special attack, that is independent from their basic attack, and can target only heroes.
- Make the special attack slow down enemies (as it used to), and maybe reduce their armor, but reduce its damage.
- (optional) Make the special attack require ammo.
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I feel like the slow was the greatest boon of forts and keeps. It was really making them reliable defenders (as long as there were no minions nearby). And it was really making you think twice before engaging under fort/keep fire, as it was uncertain if you’d even be able to get the kill, not to mention escaping after that.
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Returning ammo, albeit with a twist, may please some of the playerbase.
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There will be no inconsistencies in the rules - forts will always prioritize the objective, followed by minions, before attacking heroes with their regular (and powerful) attack, and they will always attack heroes with their special attack, as long as they have ammo.
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Having ammo will introduce more balancing options.
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I’m just uncertain if this attack should activate only when a friendly nearby hero is attacked, or just change the priority target when this happens. I like the latter option better, as it’d be more consistent, and would add extra layer of protection against backdoors.
Just some thoughts -
Through the lens of a player who strictly stuck with its game due to its drafting, these tower aggro changes removed a significant style of draft (siege and even macro to an extent) and thus caused me to hit a significant drop in interest. The Call For Help patch turned what were once amazing siegers such as Anubarak, Zagara, Rehgar, and so on - and instead of enabling them for making a correct decision in sieging using their abilities, it actually directly punishes them for playing properly (or what was considered properly at the time). For example, I am sure we are all aware of the Anubarak Greymane siege style (ex. many of Team Freedom/ Fnatic’s old games, sorry I can not link), with the Call For Help event this style was completely massacred; this comp is now extremely worse due to players being able to force, or accidentally, aggro onto them and thus causing the structures to aggro onto the enemy, forcing him back. Now it feels like the only acceptable way to play the game is to create the best team fighting team you can - thus removing almost all depth to stylistic drafting.
Potential adjustments / alternatives
- If the reasoning for these changes is simply that players should feel safer under structures, then would 10-15 armor not also justify this feeling while not punishing the opposition for playing properly? This armor could even be the stacking armor and I think the community would accept this much faster than the current call for help changes.
- Adding back the third tower. I know this does not accomplish much for the player, but this would thin out the wave faster and allow the defender more places to position during a dive to manipulate tower aggro onto the enemy.
- Some structures have splashing attacks. Again, this would simply thin the wave faster. This would also add a differentiating factor between forts/ keeps and towers (with both having the same stacking armor debuff currently, there is little power diversity).
- Structure last hits do not drop xp globes. Admittedly this is somewhat unrelated but I believe it could help with the freezing style that the Call For Help patch empowered beyond how strong it already was. This also opens the door for ranged, wave clear based solo laners that can safely push lanes.
- Defenders - This one is the weirdest, but have forts / keep passively spawn “defenders” that just hang out in front of them (they do not push past). These defenders will simply act as minion blockers that are an additional thing that must be cleared out during a push / dive to have minions/ camps properly work with you. I personally think of these like the defenders on alterac pass or garden terror that are just a little annoying to stop you from channeling, these would just slow your minions down if they do not have assistance. These would spawn every x seconds, and would hit a cap of like 3-5 (in my mind). These defenders could be tweaked to offer more or less defense/ status effects for each map.
Thank you for opening yourself up for community feedback. I personally have not enjoyed the game since the Call For Help event and hope some ideas from the community can get the game back to an enjoyable state for me. 
2 Likes
I personally love that towers have a strong presence on the map now and solo defending a tower is a lot easier. I think my only complaint that I have with this new system is that once a tower locks on to a hero, it sticks with them. There were a few times where my team was working together to push down a fort and the tower locked on to me just because i was the first in it’s range. I think it would be nice if all towers worked similarly to boss minions, who attack whatever hero is closest to it. This change would allow towers to still be strong, but also let tanks and bruisers soak the damage when pushing into towers as a team. I like the first and second ideas on how to fix the towers, but I think my idea would majorly help against the third problem of towers just being to strong to heroes. Keep up the good work!
So, the first thing I think should be fixed is unintentional damage giving you agro. I have been playing anubarak recently and things that i can’t control are giving me agro. Think beetles attacking heroes. or the talent that makes my spikes slow and do some damage. Honestly I don’t care that they do damage I want the slow to be there, but since I cant change that I take damage.
So other considerations is give the towers two different damage types, like a mini gun to hit the minions and the current effect to hit the heroes. the mini gun will always be on and the other gun will only be on when heroes activate the tower agro. maybe you turn the mini gun off during this time maybe you dont.
Another option is to give the towers splash damage that only applies to heroes. so they target minions first but will splash.
But honestly the first point, where unintentional damage forces tower agro is the main culprit in my mind.
1 Like
I’d take any of the three proposed changes. The towers are just way too strong. Id like to see reduced damage AND objective prioritization.
You guys should focus on providing an overall good match quality instead of towers or other cosmetic changes. The AI changes were a waste of development time as well.
Your playerbase is running away not because of the old towers, they do it because the game doesn’t feel competitive anymore and building SL was a huge mistake for well populated regions.
Here is the list of the biggest flaws for me and my friends (who by the way all quitted the game in EU):
- Way too easy to smurf and to boost
- 4-5 man groups in SL for Diamond+
- In a team based game in which every member matters an MMR averaging matchmaker, even with the cost of giving you somebody 2-3 division lower is just frustrating. The players with the highest MMR who play solo have <50% winrate since a few seasons which is masochistic.
- No punishment for AFK, INT
- Not possible to queue for a role
- No lose forgivingness or remake function
- QM clownfiesta instead of blind pick
While you guys don’t care and still might think “work’s as intended” I can guarantee you that the playerbase is drying out because of the match quality and overall missing competitive experience - not tower changes. If somebody doesn’t like changes, it just sums up.
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Get rid of the anomaly. I have never once felt the towers “feel” right as a defender since the change. It’s done nothing but make objectives feel worthless and make even small skirmishes feel risky and pointless. Just revert tower changes.
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As someone who sometimes plays diablo it is always fun to push B and /dance when my team pushes because using anything in my kit makes me elligible to get blasted by towers.
Super fun when you are an all-in hero and the only sustain you have is a very big aoe.
Like he was not useless enough as it is.
Also the towers are not intelligent because i surely like not triggering the call to arms but still be blasted by towers because some idiot ranged player attacked someone but since they are not close enough to get punished i do in their stead.
Like tanking is not dull enough.
Also bring back the slow i feel like the tower doesn’t handhold the defender enough and this one is not sarcasm.
If i had to choose from the list, I like
might be ok.
Have you guys experimented with having the towers attack with skillshots? Something dogeable?
The change was good, yes.
I think the only thing you should change is whether or not AoE abilities cause tower aggression.
If single-target abilities caused the towers to aggro (or basic attacks), that would be fine.
Most people don’t like being aggroed because an AoE ability “skimmed” the enemy.