Think about this statement for a second.
Just… stop… think about it…
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If it would be contrustuctive feedback based on testing I wouldn’t said anything, but just rants about sth. they don’t like, because they read it and dislike the imagination… that’s just triggered me.
True, but on the contrary it’s like an exchange to Laws of hope, which also gives you 20% heal. And don’t forget you lose 5% after death. And the ability to get armor for attacking is already weaker in general than Reinforce (1), because you have to stack up to 60, but Reinforce gives you 60 for just using your abilitys.
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I haven’t tried this on the PTR… so a question. Let’s say you intend to pick Jo Jo’s level 1 Loan Talent, but you think you might die before level 4. So if you don’t select it until level 4, I’m assuming any deaths before then won’t count when you select the loan talent?
This is just trivia, I don’t seriously think this would be a good strategy, but just asking.
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I would think you’re right, otherwise it feels not intentional. I mean the devs stated that it’s comparable to Convection so we have another real example.
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I think people should try the loan talents before getting too emotional. I think reverse quests, or loans in this case, on paper are an interesting idea on paper but even I can admit they’re very unlikely to give you optimal value with randos. Still, talents that develop into a downward curve are a pretty neat way to push the envelope and certainly at least worth a try.
With the talents themselves, people fixate too much on the loan part IMO which is only a partial (but significant) component of the talent. You also get the secondary effect which stays even when the loan ends. So you get a big up front buff and maybe a bit weaker talent, but make no mistake, 40 physical armor for example is not bad. And it’s not like talents like that aren’t subject to balance passes depending on how they perform.
What comes to people suiciding to chip away a bit of the loan… well, I don’t see it happening. Maybe the first few weeks but then it’s going to be business as usual. Like do you see people habitually suiciding to kill Medivh, Alarak, Convection KT, Untouchable Tracer or fully stacked Diablo? Well, yes and no. People suicide for the strangest of reasons, occasionally it gets Wizened Duelist Greymane but you can never be sure if it was ever their intention.
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Exactly and I would even say some talents would need further tuning like buffing or nerfing it, eventually. I can only speak for Johanna as I played her a lot and if I compare Divine Fortress to Reinforce I would say the new abiity isn’t even straight better and it might end up being niche, because A) getting value for AA is harder than ability use and B) it don’t protects you against abilitys. The loan of 20% more health is also questionable, because a bigger health pool makes you more affective against %-dmg and it don’t save you, when you’re low, while Laws of hope does the same thing, but it gives you 20% heal on demand, but still it’s a nice idea to make a niche talent more pickable.
I also play Convection KT myself and it least for me it’s thrilling and pretty fun to play risky and get rewarded, but I don’t like the quest, because he has mana issues and not because he can lose the stacks, when dies.
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Being niche is totally fine. I don’t even suppose the loan talents were meant to be the go-to option anyway. Still, might be a bit to the weaker side. Compared to what was teased, the 0,5 second reduction in duration to 2,5 seconds might end up hurting the most.
But if we look at the positives, having both physical armor and extra HP really forces the enemy to make a decision, either focus on JoJo who is now ridiculously durable or let her disrupt you all day long. Neither is a good option and as long as you whack someone every other second you can probably get more value out of Divine Fortress than Reinforce. Having 166% effective HP against AAs is very nice since I think people generally underestimate how much AAs actually do damage. Also with now a reason to pick Falling Sword you can disengage more easily post lvl 10.
Technically you gain no benefit from the +20% but it still helps against the non-% portion of the attack.
True, but since it’s heal over time with 1 second added to duration and needing 20 globes to get the same healing as pre-rework you have to be aware you will be slightly more vulnerable to being bursted down than before.
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It sounds nice in theory, but I would say you’re exaggerating. You don’t get full stacked armor of 60 for your attack, but you have to stack it before! That’s a big difference to the old Reinforce, where you have to just use your ability to get one stack for 60 armor for one attack.
And since using AA is harder in general than just abilitys I expect that his talent is weaker in general or at least comparable to the old one, because you get the bonus of 20% more health. Only in the best case scenario in longer sustained fights you would get more benefits than the old talent.
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Forbidden contracts are the point of a game. This is not a bad design, its an excellent one. Its the point of a competitive environment. You take a risk, you suck, you get punished. Every talent should be like this and then maybe someone will care about this casual trash game.
“Ew you’re just a gatekeeper, elitist”
Give me a break. You want casual? This genre doesn’t work well if its not strategic or have some sort of flashy way to win. HOTS is a perfect example with its low skill ceiling. Playing Heroes of Experience Communism doesn’t lend well to watching professionally (its tedious to watch even LoL games).
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You don’t take the talents just for the temporary boost, you take them because you want the passive effect and you get a huge temporary boost on top of that. That’s why all of them also have a solid passive effect as well.
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Let’s just wait 2 weeks to see if people are ok with it, THEN we can complain if they are bad or not, i personally do not like the idea either of such a snowbally mechanic, but i want to see if it’s bad or not, remember when people hated the idea of exp globes? and now no one really cares, this might be a total flop of an idea, paper and practice are 2 different things
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Snowballing should be rewarded and punished when used improperly.
I too dislike the concept of loan talents. I already have PuG teammates giving up after two deaths, how much more are they going to freak out if they lose a LOAN? My issue with reserving judgement until this hits the live servers, is that then we are stuck with these talents for several months until we got another patch cycle.
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And after as well. Some people talk as if once it hits the live servers it’s locked in for life. Sheesh.
The deaths deduct stacks, so if you haven’t picked it, yet, you have no stacks to lose. That strategy would, however, mean that you would not have the benefit of the extra life until level 4, so it’s still a tradeoff.
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That’s an important point. Even if you lose all of the bonus, you still have benefit left. Though I’d argue you are incorrect in calling them “temporary”. Nothing says you can’t have them for the whole game, either in whole or at least partially.
you mean a very small portion of the player base? When the vast majority who doesnt post in the forums may like it?
The vocal minority ruined this game. Caused Artifacts to be removed, don’t want a chat box on the post game score screen, caused the new turret system from last April to be watered down, watered down new experience globes system, caused the Medallion to be removed which was a great new thing for the game (that could have been the start to many more and we choose 1 to use in hero select each match) etc…
Bottom line is: The vocal minority ruined this game completely to a watered down trash that barely anyone wants to play or start playing.
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The PTR is for finding bugs. Game balancing can only happen after releasing to the live server since it is only on them where there is there enough PvP to collect enough data to judge gameplay.
Loans and quests are flipsides of the same coin: taking a quest is also a gamble where you could end up getting nothing, and a loan rewards skill in that if you are skillful you keep it. They are functionally the same, just in reverse order.
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this, loan and quests are much the same, the problem is the actual loan requirments are pretty high, for example, johana loses 5% means if she dies 4 times she will lost the bonus, wich is too fast, this should be like 2% or meaing u have to actual feeding and dies 10 times to lose all of it
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