Incredibly Bad Winrate

General Discussion
21

some tips:

  • Try to add other players to your friends-list if they played well or if they have been very cooperative. Like this you can start your own premade groups or get involved in other premade groups. Not only do you avoid bad randoms, playing with friends is also helpful because you can give each other feedback/evolve as a team.

  • Start playing draft modes if you really care about win-rates because this game is balanced around drafting. Before you can really start drafting, you have to establish yourself a hero-pool and normally players do this by playing QM.

  • Use the community (for example NotParadox - Youtube channel, very helpful guides about this game). This helps to become a better player --> improve your winrate.

  • Don’t worry about dragging others down - that’s not a good reason to NOT play ranked. The ranked system is a ladder where everyone has a place and there are probably a lot of players on this ladder that are worse than you. It’s just normal for team games: sometimes you carry and sometimes you get carried. If your intentions are good (winning the game) then there is no problem with it.

  • Don’t take every feedback serious - a lot of players are bad and don’t really know how to give feedback. Most bad player blame others for their own mistakes. Don’t get emotionally involved with them :slight_smile:

22

I’m healing like t r a s h

Nice to know, not that I posted it in my first post.

Anyways, I want to improve my diving skills better, aka, when to dive and when to flee.

I also want to improve communication with my teammates.

I have issues paying 100% attention to the minimap (Unless im abby, I watch too much on the tiny map)

Finally, if you get a bad team, like for ex: Greymane (Me), Nova, Zagara, Ana, and Maltheal, how can you win with a strange comp?

23

Strange comps can also be good because how well a comp works depends a lot on the map, enemy comp and your strategy.
What is so strange about your mentioned comp?
What are the strengths/weaknesses of your team is a good question you should always think about, then do the same for the enemy team. This might help you figure out your strategy.

24

Some simple rules for healers and supports that may help out here:

  1. When someone is solo at the other end of the map, do not run there to help it, one death is better then two.
  2. When someone dives deep in/on the other side of the enemy team, let it die. Same reason.
  3. Until you are comfortabel with the healer, keep a bit back. There are healers like Ana/Rehgar/WM who profit from aggression, but that is probably not where one should start.

tl;dr: learn to let people die

25

Wait what xD ?! How ?!

Have fun ! Cliche i know lol
When ever you get outplayed by someone , most people tend to rage but see it as an opportunity to learn in what they did better :+1:

26

All of the Heroes you use rely heavily on other players to be effective.

Also Heroes like Greymane and Aba which have a high skill Cap to be effective.
You cant really use a winrate as an excuse if 80% of the playerbase cant use the Hero to its full potential.

Everyone blames their poor play on a heroes winrate

3 Likes
27

Thanks everyone! I stopped playing for only a day, went to a coding class.

Anyways, @Creeper: The map was Hanamura, and what was strange, was that our zag stayed with everyone and Nova dived in a lot, Ana did pretty good and Mal was alright. I probobly dived too much.

Thinking about weakness and strengths would actually help me a lot.

@rcw: I’ve learned that as a Morales, until our asassain hero gets all pissy because I didnt dive literally between two forts in Dragon Shire to kill a stray Chromie. I’ve learned it, but sometimes, peer pressure is too much to handle.

MySelf: Sometimes I get mad at stuff, but 1/2 the time I forget about it and I feel better about myself.

Phrozen: I did hotslogs Total winrate on all of my character plays. Im not using any other winrate than my total winrate from all the heros estimated.

Wait, Hot slogs sounds like a dating website :thinking:

28

Honestly, one of the worst advice you could get as a healer. There’s a skill to knowing when to let people die, but it’s the exception not the rule. Usually there’s an attempt to save someone and then fall back if you fail rather than not try at all. You don’t automatically die just for helping.

  1. I often do rotate to other lanes if people need help. If my lane is fine, there’s no reason for me to stay because there’s nothing to heal. Why not intercept to save an ally from dying. If you’re on a bigger map and far away from the solo laner who is doing terribly, you’re right there’s not much you can do though. In that case, I’d suggest someone rotate with him so they can join the main group where you can watch them better.

  2. Good healers are actually really aggressive because good healing just often isn’t enough by itself, other wise you are just a heal bot. Good players don’t actually play safe when they start, they actually want to push the line too far, in order to know where that line is to see how far they can get away with.

All this talk of solo wave clearing is irrelevant when you play a support. You don’t contribute by soaking as a support. You contribute by being so good at keeping people alive and being good in team fights, you outlast the enemy, and kill everyone, which allows your team to soak after everyone dies and secure objectives. One of my more experienced heroes is with Kharazim, and his wave clear is TURREBLE. That’s not why I win with him.

29

As Creeper mentioned, another thing that can make a huge difference is to queue with someone you can trust. If you have a match with an excellent tank, send them a tell and see if they want to play more games together. If things go well, ask if you can add them to your friends list, so you can play with them in the future.

I mostly play tanks and bruisers, and a good healer is my best bestest friend, so I tend to have a lot of healer mains on my friends list. In return, I do my best to create space for them, so they are free to heal, throw in some damage, follow-up CC, and the like without having to save all of their kit for self-preservation. I know that heal-botting is one of the least fun ways to play a healer, so I try to help them shine. I had a match last night as Anub’arak, with a friend on Ana, and the enemy team had Mal’ganis and Valeera. Any time they tried to dive or gank her, they had to deal with me and a world of “nope”. Seeing my Ana with zero deaths at the end of the match was very satisfying.

30

I have a Lvl 117 Tracer. So I’ve had to learn the discipline of when to chase a target or not, where to position myself etc.

Let me know if you want some training.

As for teamcomps, you need to check what your team is good at. It will on occasion happen that your team doesn’t have better team fighting and also has worse wave clear than the enemy. Then the only thing you can do is try to ambush / gank or try to capitalize on an enemy mistake.

But even if you’re 100% right and you suggest the best course of action, your team may decide to do the opposite.

31

Alright. I just didn’t play dps for a while, so, I only know this rule of thumb as a healer, meaning, I can only tell if i’m a healer ./shrug

I’ll add you and you can kinda help me with this.

Alright, how does this randomly generated game sound for the help?

Blue: Nova, Greymane, LiLi, Kel’thuzad, Genji,

Red: Zagara, Chromie, Garrosh, ETC, Lt.Morals

What would both teams be good at? What would both teams mostly prioritize?

32

Your problem is that you’re playing support in QM. My win rate is as bad as yours in QM when playing support as intended. Even when you play support well, you will lose the game, because your teammates won’t soak exp, won’t take camps, and will jump into team fights when a talent tier down. You have little control of that as a support.

But I don’t know how you can get bad win rates with Zagara, Hammer, Greymane, and Tracer though, unless you’re playing badly and feeding.

Try playing tanks in QM. Almost nobody knows how to tank in QM. If you’re even mediocre at tanking in QM, you can often carry the game.

LiLi is actually quite good in QM. Just go full damage build and pray that you’re matched against a team full of auto attackers. Same with Malfurion. It’s quite possible to got top kills in game as LiLi and Malfurion if you’re playing with and against very uncoordinated teams. Rehgar and Brightwing are also viable for doing camps. Alexstrasza can get in some nice kills in dragon form, but the cool down is long, so she’s not as reliably high DPS as LiLi and Malfurion. Tyrande can also get kills, but wave clear is too terrible.

Playing LiLi as a ranged assassin with self-sustain and playing Brightwing as camp stealer allows me to have ~55-60% win rate with them.

QM is all about securing kills against suicidal players on the other team. If nobody on your team can secure kills, you lose. It’s hard to secure kills as most supports.

33

Ok so, it’s true that everyone could stand to improve so you did great asking. Part of your issue is QM, I’ve seen some things in there that defy and spit in the face of logic. No, I didn’t miss the context or not see the strat, I’m saying there were things you should never ever do I’ve seen in QM. People to very odd things, like violently force a 3v5 team fight in the middle of nowhere while the 3 (my team >.<) were 2 levels down, and one of those levels was level 16 so the enemy had a talent advantage…

Also,

I’m not even sure what that looks like, why on Earth this’d ever happen or how anyone would look at every aspect of Nova and think “Now’s my time to dive! Here we go!!!”…

…

1 Like
34

Wrong. If you’re playing support well you will do better and win more even with awful teammates.

Though there’s definitely an element of helping secure kills depending which support you play, this is an entirely reductive statement. If you heal your suicidal teammates 5 seconds longer than their suicidal teammates, you will most likely win. Now what if you have a support that not only heals 5 seconds longer, but then also CCs their suicidal guy allowing that person to do less damage.

I mean it’s not surprising players who are bad at supports keep fixating on gameplay elements like securing kills and soaking, but those are generally not reasons what a support excels at, but it’s certainly the wrong approach and lens to play support.

35

There’s a difference between QM and drafted play style and meta.

In drafted games, your primary role as support is keeping your teammates alive and expect coordinated plays, but you can’t expect that in QM. In QM, you can expect people to be completely out of position alone and over extended, and not be at the objective.

When you have a 2 vs 4 at objective, you can’t just go full heal build like you would in a drafted game where it’s 5 vs 5 at objective. You have to basically go damage build as support and take down the enemy hero who shows up at objective at half health and no mana.

QM is not about proper game play. It’s about taking advantage of the dumbest mistakes your enemies make. That’s more effective than hoping to mitigate the mistakes of bad players on your team.

QM is about killing your enemy’s feeder more than they kill your feeder, not so much about proper team play. You can’t expect the person you heal to deal effective damage or people to follow up on CC. On a proper team, each player and hero can have very distinct roles to maximize strengths and cover for each other’s weaknesses, but in QM, you do best when everyone is as self-sufficient as possible.

I actually like the QM game mode a lot. I don’t ever complain about team mates who are terrible. I just assume that they are testing out a hero they don’t usually play and sometimes I do terribly when I do that too. I think part of the fun is the randomness and weird team compositions. Sometimes it’s annoying that you basically lose on draft, but it can still be entertaining to try to make the best out of a bad situation.

36

I found out something: My winrate is actually 71%

(bweep bweep boop)

I was checking hotslogs, which, had other players upload. 127 games/560+

Thanks guys for the help anyways.

And no, QM isn’t totally mindless. Going all dps build as a healer is normally a very bad idea.

Lets just say picking a healer just to dps is dead stupid, alright? Sorry, I had to say it.

If your going to pick support or healer (Not me) just to dps, whats the point?

37

Which maps is played would make a big diff.

On a three lane map, like cursed hollow. Red team would have Zagara with Nydus agressively push lanes, and make sure to grab camps right before every objective. If you look at team A, their best waveclear is Greymane, so they can’t easily negate the push that red team would create.

If I was red team, I would go Nydus with Zagara and Stage Dive with ETC. Main reason is that with double tank, Morales and Zagara, that leaves only Chromie as main dps, and since blue team have a Nova AND a Genji, Morales will get dived a lot. So they would mostly want to focus on applying map pressure, and use Nydus and Stage dive for ganks and to join the objective at the last second of a push. Basically, GM grabs a camp, ETC pushes with it, Zagara pushes another lane, and as soon as the enemy team sends someone to challenge the push, they teleport to their team and outnumber blue team at the objective. Which is their best bet for winning a teamfight.

If I was blue team. I would aggressively gank and force fights as much as possible, because they have better team fighting but worse wave clear. The Greymane would be in charge of grabbing merc camps. And they could try to invade enemy camps often, as Zagara would usually be soloing them. While red team has double tank, blue team can send one of their divers after Morales while KTZ gets huge burst damage on their frontline ( Two large frontline hitboxes,easier to combo)

38

Make sure you’re not counting AI games.

This isn’t really possible anymore since they shifted towards the themed tier paradigm. I personally think being more aggressive is perfectly legitimate as long as you’re with the group and also healing.

People who play supports badly are the ones that ignore healing to do damage or go get camps or soak and play solo. In that case, just go play something else, you’ll be much more effective. However, if you’re going to support, then support.

39

QM isn’t totally mindless, it’s just a different meta.

It’s rarely worth it to stay in prolonged team fights in QM. It’s far more important to know when to engage and when to disengage. In drafted, the support could be the most important hero in certain team compositions, but in QM, the tank is far more impactful.

If you have a coordinated 4-man rotation in QM, you almost always win the game. The healer could be completely terrible, but as long as your tank is decent, people follow through with kills after CC and disengage when the tank disengages, you basically win.

The healer is very important in coordinated team play with longer fights, but far less impactful in QM. Healers shine more in higher level play than at lower level play. That’s just the nature of the game. It’s common to see teams without healers dominate teams with healers in QM.

The fact of the mechanism of the game is that healers can do more healing when the team groups up as 5-man and aren’t in awkward positions.

The map does matter too though. On Volskaya, Hanumura, and Inferno Shrines, you can often see the whole team at objective in long team fights. Having a good healer is a lot more important on these maps. Healer is basically useless on Blackheart in QM, where everyone is spread out and nobody knows where they’re going.

Since you don’t get to plan for which map you play in QM, it’s outside of your control if you’re thrown into a bad team composition compared to the opponent or for the map. Healers and niche assassins are sensitive to this, while generalist assassins and tanks are good for any map.

Picking a healer in QM and playing as DPS is good in QM, but not in drafted, because it at least ensures that you can make the decision to heal yourself and survive and get kills when the rest of the team suicides.

I’m not saying not to heal your teammates in QM, but I am saying that the healing is less impactful than in drafted games. In QM, heal your teammates whenever possible, prioritizing players who are playing well. But the focus should be getting kills and keeping yourself alive. Heal everyone whenever possible, but prioritize damage talents over healing talents for your build.

Don’t go full solo laner as the healer and go around only getting camps or sieging by yourself. Group up with other team members, especially at objective, but also know when you should back and soak.