Heroes that blizzard don’t think exist, I’d say Illidan and Chen but not sure if they are even in this game still.
All stealth heroes are pretty high skillcap, except maybe for Nova as shes the only ranged one of them, but she gets wrecked by any dive hero that can play the game.
But as they have high skillcaps they also have high returns if theyre played well.
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Please do. I’ve looked at the past TWENTY games I’ve played and not a single one of them contained a game where we didn’t have the tools necessary to knock someone out of stealth easily enough to where it wasn’t an issue anymore.
You make it sound like hit-and-run tactics are exclusive to stealth heroes but it just isn’t true. Any hero can lead you on a wild goose chase away from your team and distract you. This isn’t limited to stealth.
The only way I can see this being an issue for you is if you’re a LiLi or Tracer main.
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It is legitimately impossible to draft a team that has no skillshots. This reminds me of the “Valeera is a fun sponge” thread where the dude said his team “had no skillshots” and complained about his Li-Ming getting farmed.
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Skill shots can be dodged and have cooldowns. Heroes have increased movement speed when they are in stealth, makes it easier to dodge things…
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Yeah, that’s exactly what i meant. Characters like Samuro and Zeratul are strong because they dont rely on stealth to be good, their base kits support them whether they have stealth or not. (Samuro’s stealth isn’t even permanent) But Nova and Valeera do, but while Nova isn’t so reliant it, she just loses alot of her power when she no longer has the element of surprise on her side. Valeera on the other hand, has an entire half of her kit reliant on being stealthed and if she gets revealed her power drastically decreases.
However, stealth as a mechanic is easy fairly easy to abuse. Even the weakest Zeratul players can simply blink in, cleave, blink out, wait to re-stealth and do it again. It’s a cheap tactic that rewards weak gameplay.
Oh no! counterplay!!
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yeah you should try it instead of complaining xD
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But do you think that stealth players are just going to let you hit them? Most of them have some way to disengage fairly easily.
- Zeratul can teleport
- Nova can drop a clone
- Samuro can clone/windwalk
- Valeera can smokebomb/cloak
All of them are equipped with an escape tool that allows them to pick and choose how they want to engage you.
I didn’t say they were, i just meant that stealth removes the issue of having to go very far to escape and greatly reduced the threat of getting caught.
Do I look like a Lili or Tracer main?
It’s possible to draft a team with less than effective skillshots for revealing stealthies.
-Thrall
-Greymane
-Sylvanas
-Nazeebo
-Samuro
-Stukov
-Lili
-Alextrasza
-Artanis
-Garrosh
It is possible but by no means do you have to by any stretch, and some of the heroes you list there have fairly quick skill shots (Alex) or cover a wide enough range (Artanis) to easily reveal. Many of them still have options to reveal stealth regardless, as only Lili on that list actually lacks any direct skill shot (and it is not even a big deal considering that she is your support) and Samuro.
And even if you for some reason aren’t able to hit them with your skill shots then take advantage of them when they engage and remove themselves out of stealth. It’s easy enough to force them to retreat given their low HP pools.
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That’s a good way to contribute absolutely nothing to your team and lose the game.
…That’s kind of the point of ambush assassins.
Naz can certainly force stealth heroes to back off with toads. Alex has 2 second cooldown skillshot that’s not all that hard to hit.
But not drafting some kind of aoe skillshot means you will have a hard time dealing with stealth. That’s the way the cookie crumbles, and it’s perfectly reasonable for a stealth hero to be able to punish that kind of draft.
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Possible, yes, but not probable. And being punished for draft deficiencies is kinda how the game works and the purpose of having a draft in the first place.
I also get really sick of seeing the claim that stealth “allows weak players to excel.” If that were the case, stealth heroes would have exceptionally high winrates in lower leagues. Valeera’s winrate in HL doesn’t get above 45% until diamond, and it’s currently 39.5% in bronze…
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Artanis can use Q and E to reveal stealthies easily. I have never had a problem with kicking them out of their opener when I have to.
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I’ve done this many a times to bait out abilities and even heroics leaving the enemy team open to mines but maybe I haven’t because us stealthies only come in and attack after the enemy team is dead like the coward that we are kek
Yeah, but it secures ez kills when an enemy hero is low, and hard to avoid.
Which is why they will always be niche. Solely relying on the element of surprise is not effective and smart opponents will learn to precipitate it, until suddenly your one and only advantage is no longer effective.
Slow moving toads that are relatively simple to avoid. Especially when most stealth heroes have increased mobility while stealthed.
An expensive 2s skillshot that is easy to dodge.
So why did you make this thread? Whats wrong with stealth heroes being niche? Greymane was on top of the world for 2 years, and he’s become a niche pick. Im sure that one day will come when stealth heroes are highly desireable. But right now, no matter how many times they get changed they won’t be viable because they need to be balanced around having a mechanic like stealth.
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Which is about average in terms of bromze league.
Yet across all leagues, right now she’s hovering around 48/49%, which is probably the highest she’s ever been and 50.5% in HL specifically.
Reveal is not necessary for stealth anymore. You don’t need direct attacks anymore to pop these heroes. Just anything that has a wave, dive, or aoe effect will knock all of them out of stealth.
What is interesting is how many attacks continue to attack stealth heroes that invoke an escape. And I don’t think this is consistent. Some heroes can click a skill to invis-away and be safe. [Or even enjoy Tyrande doing it for them.] But if Nova invokes Ghost Protocol to cancel the same effects it fails. Nova eats the flaming ball of death from KT, the laser of Azmo, etc.
Stealth should be revisited thoroughly for consistency. Its place the 2019 game needs to be reconsidered in a game overly populated with endless circles, triangles, and squares of massive acreage. They have turned this game into Frogger where the objective is to dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge for your life for most of the game, hoping you get a shot on someone.
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Blizzard is working blind. It’s trying hard to balance heroes together, but it has no idea where together actually is.
From what i understand they rely on data collection and stuff like that.
I would like to suggest: ‘play your damn game’.
If you’re actually surprised by a stealth hero you probably have poor game sense. The point of them isn’t to surprise. It’s a defensive tool that allows them to carefully select engages without getting focused down. Not all ambush assassins use stealth. Kerrigan is an ambush assassin too.
Zeratul and samuro are fine (zera is actually quite strong).
Nova lacks a niche altogether, I would say. Other burst damage heroes are just better.
Valeera is viable in a few specific scenarios, but I don’t think she’s really filling her intended role. She’s not “shutting down enemy carries” like she’s supposed to. Her role is pretty much “prevent my opponents from murdering my more valuable teammate”. On top of that, I’d say she’s underpowered even for what she’s currently doing. 90% of the times you could pick her, there’s a better option anyways. That’s a problem imo. She needs a little buffing here and there to be viable in more situations, but blizzard hasn’t even touched her for a year.
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