If we’re comparing him to Imperius’ wave clear as the gold standard for bruisers then I guess it’s good but let’s be real his wave clear isn’t that hot, not compared to wave clear lords like Ragnaros Leoric etc.
Does it mean that every solo laner below Rag or Leo is bad? Rag and Leo have god-like wave clear, but are also the ones, who are the squishest of all bruisers at least for me.
I would really only take twin blades against a team that lacked CC entirely. You get some games like that but they are rare. I guess you could also go TB if you’re going to be in the off lane but their are better off lane options that TB Varian.
At least he is a potencial threat in starting solo boss like Rexxar.
If you wanna be the edgy useless Illidan that mercs during obj (but worse), that’s when you go trashblades
True. It takes time to do camps solo though. A bruiser needs to be able to hold the lane and TB can be beat by other bruisers without too much trouble. He becomes really dangerous late game though.
Smash Varian does do decent damage and his health is okay. You make a good point that he can’t really do camps. I would argue he’s great for burst and blow up though. You can chunk tanks and kill squishy heroes with smash. Smash might not win you the off lane but later on it can provide lots of value.
Overall I think taunt and TB can be strong earlier on in a match. I think if you know how to play smash you can get the same value though.
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It’s not just the godly ones, Varian is bottom of the barrel right down with IMperius and Chen with lackluster wave clear, it’s at best “adequete”
Also I present Thrall for consideration for squishiest bruiser, Can say with confidence I can squeeze a lot more survivability out of my Rag then I’ve ever seen a Thrall present with.
There is a threshold of Tolerable CC, mabye it’s just because I play Melee assassins and thus by my nature have to always know the zones that tanks command and respect their space but most CC is avoidable if you’re not being silly about diving in without your own tank
I agree but TB needs to stick onto targets for sustain. If they peel you off constantly with CC you just get melted trying to get on a target. At least with taunt you lock the enemy down and smash does all the burst up front.
Maybe this is a difference of opinion and use, but when I run Twin Blades iwth my group we usually have the idea in our heads that we are going to be brute forcing our way through the tank, in which the MOrtal Strike becomes godly in making that possible.
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That is the way! I usually run solo or duo and it can be hard to get randoms to follow up in team fights. If I’m playing bruiser (common for me) Varian is usually down my list unless I feel the enemy didn’t draft anything to counter him.
Obviously, but that doesn’t help him when he’s alone. And you can provide the Armor debuff in other methods, with other Heroes.
I still like Smash (
), but it’s the worst for a reason.
And ppl here talked about Blinds and CC countering Winblades, but Smash is more prone to that. Lower hp, more clear window for the incoming dmg which has a bigger cd. I mean, your AA does more dmg, but less often, so Blinds do more to you.
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That’s surprising, but I experienced Thrall as one of the tankiest bruiser due to his trait, but of course is not comparable to Dehaka or Yrel. The last ones are more comparable to tanks. XD
If you find yoruself in a situation where you think Anti Armour would be epic there’s always Nova who can talent into literal permanent -15
Deathwings don’t know what to do against AAS and literally any sustain DPS lol.
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Thrall is one of the most Tankiest Bruiser. 
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True, but he can still just spread the fear with his 10 and deal dmg with heatwave, can be real scary, if there is follow up to DWs initiation.
I wonder what they could do to buff it up a bit? I think it’s fine now but it does feel weaker than taunt and TB. I like smash and have success with it. I just don’t like getting crap for taking it though.
I’m never that worried about blinds but hard CC makes me nervous playing Varian. Almost all of his sustain comes from attacking heroes. Getting constantly shut down by multiple stuns, sleeps and roots makes him useless.
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Have I just not seen good ones? Or am I just that good at Rag that I’m actually think he’s on the tanky side
Has killed IMperius’ in lane It’s probably the latter now that I think about it XD
I mean Here’s the rub, Varian might be classed as a bruiser but Smash is VERY clearly assassin
I mean to put it into perspective Smash Varian taking Shield Wall and Q talents for max survival, and I can still get more survivability out of my Qhira then Smash Varian.
Despite this lackluster survival his escape is even worse then Q’s (who is C tier survival among melee assassins, only better then Butcher and Cassia levels of all in)
Melee assassins in general already struggle like mo ones business in tier lists the ones with minimal escape and survival that can’t back it up are just asking to be bottom of the barrel.
Not sure if he needs the ho removal.
Quite possible.
This build really makes him hard to kill, especially in uncoordinated gmaes.
At 13, spellshield if they have hard hitting abilities, otherwise the Trait talent.
At 16, depends.
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Because Varian is NOT ONLY a bruiser, but an actual multiclass like he was released. He can be tank, bruiser or melee assassine.