The hero should have a theme, and at least one combo. More than 3 it is becoming complex where you will spend a ton of time reading and trying to understand how three of your skills works. Too many options can become overwhelming and you will only use the options that are meta. Options that are used enough to exist, are what we need.
Talents lend a sort of variety and combos without adding more skills. Which is good.
Each skill can work on their own, but when combined they can encompass a new option. When a skill doesn’t combine with another, it almost feels like it’s just there for one thing.
Like Morales.
(My ideas)
Healing beam - heals with a tether
safeguard - gives armor
Displacement Grenade
Use healing beam on one target and safeguard on another, the tether will chain, within a certain range. (Yes, there is a talent for this, but the added bonus of using your shield on a target not tethered is nice.)
There was a game I used to play that had a character, that when played at its most optimal state, could not lose. Essentially could be put in an invulnerable state almost indefinitely. The catch was that this took near inhumane levels of apm to actually do.
Personally, I don’t mind complexity. As long as it doesn’t interfere with counterplay, making it more or less a 1v0, I’m all for it.
I think Deathwing would rely on his teammates more than you think.
First of all his main damaging ability has a significant wind-up, meaning ally CC is his best friend. And there are hard counters like Malthael and Tychus he would need his team to eliminate before he can engage.
Just because he can’t rely on healers doesn’t mean he gets no benefit from competent allies, or that he should just focus on his own game with no care for where his team needs him.
This is the key sentence. He can’t rely on the most important game element, Heal/support. Regardless which form he takes, he will get damaged, if the enemy takes % dmg heroes you mentioned, he will be out of the fight very fast.
So he’s either gona be a Long range poker with his W and E, and look for opportunity to engage (if he can) and hope the fight turns in his team favour. Or like a Stage dive ETC.
The simple fact that he can’t get any support from his team, will be very big issue imo.
I admire people who can play mechanically complex heroes like Illusion Samuro and gain a high win ratio.
You can’t play that “casually”, it requires your complete focus.
Most of moba heroes esp. Dota ones are too simple (like rogue knight, newer ones like grimstroke is good though) maybe because dota is the earliest and pioneer, almost any hero from lol and hots are better, even then i feel certain characters are too simple, i dont know where is the line to draw though, it varies on personal preferences
I like heroes that are easy to grasp, but have depth.
Interaction between abilities that aren’t necessarily wombo combo (because then the hero is usually bad without the combo)
They should all feel unique.
Like I had a concept that put Ulrezaj as a support (I know that’s not what you’d expect) and his W was Maelstrom which had an ultra short cooldown
Simple view: Spam it on an enemy to reduce their spell power
Complex view: Spam it on an enemy because it needs to build up, but since his trait applied corruption to the ground which was damage over time, granted vision, and allowed him to use Z to teleport to corrupt areas. So sometimes tossing it over a bush or on another hero would be worth losing a tack.
Additionally his Q could heal an ally or enemy, but then provided a buff/debuff if they weren’t near you, so you could force them to run through corruption or use teleport to get near an ally.
Also his auto was 3 seperate attacks that tried to seek different targets, but if there was only 1 they’d all go for the same target for powerful autos, which worked with the teleport and the enemy healing if they ended up running toward you to avoid withdrawl debuffs.
In the stream video the guy who played DW said that whilst he had a lot of abilities, it didnt take long to get your head around them as they seemed intuitive.
He said that DW didn’t feel mechanically challenging as most of his abilities are aoe. However, the skill will come from the decision making aspect of his gameplay given his global flight and long wind up of spells
that depends on what you are calling complex. mechanically DW really doesnt look to be ‘complex’ to play really. its just that playing him introduces a new set of rules that makes things a bit more complicated than usual. since normally you dont have a hero that is immune to CC, immune to allied effects, and so on. it really does make things different for both sides.
i would say that playing TLV is actually more complicated mechanically because of the micromanagement that has to go on. i have never liked that honestly. with heroes like Samuro and Rexxar its not quite as bad. TLV just took that micro over the edge imo.
yes, basically a low skill floor where the hero is easy to understand and you can just pick it up and run with it. however, they really only shine if you master them. in other words they have significant room for growth into the skill ceiling. a good hero example of that would be Jaina imo. really easy to just pick up and do things with her. great laning, aoe, etc. however, getting good with her she can do some amazing things.
Cho is not particularly complex, and gall is literally just spam abilities on cooldown.
Abathur is not that complicated either. He simply requires a player capable of paying attention.
Deathwing has essentially 5 traits (armor, cant be targeted by allies, deals 100% bonus dmg to heroes, perma unstoppable, 2 different forms), 5 basic abilities, a special mount effect, and an ult from level 1. He is by far the most complicated hero in the history of the game. No other can even come close to his level of complexity.
The nice thing about cool HotS characters is that they have really intricate designs that are still intuitive. We have a two-player hero, a mission control that never actually engages in combat, an FPS character translated directly into a different genre, and now an independent big boy that has two kits at once. The thing that keeps them understandable is how simple each of the actual skills are.
Also, the most complex hero talking technical ability is Samuro.
There are bo problem to have really complex characters . deatgwing actually doesnt look complexe really but lets say he was. Why would it be wrong ?
Some heroes are more popular than others because they are simpler to play while some are much more attractive to a nice pool of players because they like more chalenging game play .
This simple rule is why the player base has many different mains and why some are more popular than others and there is nothing wrong with this
I think it’s his size what makes him look “complex”
it’s a huge hitbox, so definitely a weakness, also it’s immunity to healing and his lack of mobility, he will be a target almost in every team fight, so yeah… it requires more skill to be played correctly without risking him too quick in every encounter. I don’t know but I feel he won’t be in the meta. I mean it’s too effing cool and all… but I would have preferred him as a more standard hero.
Your allies can HELP Deathwing. A tank can run in and peel advancing enemy team to prevent them from killing Deathwing. There are going to be many many situations where Deathwing will work cooperatively with a team, ESPECIALLY in larger than life set up moments.
If the team knows how DW is played, it can work in many situations. He’s a Dive dive hero from what i saw. I still say he’s gona be a hard nut to play, and play with (both end). But also, i think he will be easy to counter and punish, and rather hard to make a play with.
