Dropping Player Base?

And yet the most prominent argument of why people claim that HotS is dead is because there are no official eSports. I think you underestimate how many moba players think they could potentially become a progamer one day - nowadays I don’t think many people left playing HotS think that way.

Not really, the system was fundamentally different (the system used to not activate expanded queue on purpose for a certain amount, they kept tuning it down) and it also depends on what you pick and what you used to pick as well. QM was never balanced (even with much longer queue times and people being closer to smilar (QM) MMrs) as there’s way too many random factors to be taken into account for.

I remember when you could get a HL Queue of people all within the same division of the same rank in less than 30 seconds. Nowadays you’d be lucky if there was 1 person logged in for each division of each rank.

It saddens me to see the game I put so much time and effort into dying, it’s a real shame I didn’t learn how to play this game well and reached diamond when it mattered. All the friends I started playing this game with left they never really made it out of bronze but neither did I when they still played years ago. I hope this game survives a another year so I can try to make the push into masters but it will probably die before I get there.

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I’ve been in diamond for most seasons and was in masters in 2019 and can’t recall getting such short queue times in HL ever. Not even the Teamleague queues which were much faster than the HL ones by the way (especially ever since they added the solo queue option for it in late 2017 or early 2018, can’t remember when exactly that was anymore) popped up that fast for me.

And I definitely didn’t always have full teams of the very same division, far from it actually. I don’t know why people like to spread wrong information like that.

There’s easily hundreds if not thousands of people of the same tiers logged on at the same time, don’t overexxagerate that much, please. If there was only a single person of every division online at the same time you’d have like 30 minute long queue times at the very least.

The game is far from dying, no matter how many edgy people on Youtube make clickbaity videos about it - of course it’s not as successful and big as it once was but the game will live on for many, many years to come. They literally just added a skin pack with a gigantic balance patch after a new event (+ major hero rework and new nexus anomaly) that came out a few weeks before that.

my friend challenged me to queue for Storm League, i gave up at 2000 seconds.

Just look at Aus and SEA servers. Compared to 2016, they are gone.

Nah just the lack of care for the game is all.

Does anybody know if the Heroes of the Storm team (Devs) encourage stutter stepping? And if so why isn’t it easily available or taught from the game directly? I’ve been playing since November of 2018 and I just learned about it last week.

I still haven’t used it but should I? I’m watching a YouTube tutorial right now. But honestly, I just like to play naturally. Even on Diabo 3 I refused to stutter step or use those extra techniques. I’m a plug and play person. I just have fun playing with what I readily see.

“Many years to come”.
I’m gonna bookmark this page and set a reminder in a years time to see how well this holds up

Stutterstepping is necessary to get good. you don’t need to stutterstep all the time, only when it matters.

I see people stutterstepping just to clear a minionwave and it kinda annoys me because its unnecessary micro intensive effort and if you have a wrist like mine it causes pain for no good reason

there are two main reasons to stutterstep

  1. because you want to move in a direction (like running/chasing) while keeping up dps
  2. to stay elusive when someone is trying to hit you with a skillshot

Outside of those two reasons I’m perfectly happy being flatfooted

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While TF2 had an impressive life, I don’t think the two are comparable. The inherent competitive nature of mobas stands against TF2’s “goofing around” nature. I think you underestimate just how much it thrived on community content - mods and private servers alike.
I mostly played on private servers just to see what kind of ideas other people came up with. Take a random server from the list and let’s go. I don’t even see how any competitive gameplay would have been possible unless you build your own clan outside of the game. During matches, it was totally normal to see between 1 and 3 persons standing in spawn because they were chatting or trading. And it didn’t matter. A round could be over so quickly, but the next one would be just around the corner.

The longer I think about it, the less I think those are comparable. I myself pretty much quit TF2 when they introduced matchmaking.

I dont underestimate that. I have seen very clear results (and i have been part of that content creating community). I was a mapper!

Maps barely matter to the playerbase since even after all this time, dustbowl, 2fort and goldrush are still the most popular maps by a huge diffirence. These are ancient maps and are similar to cs_office and de_dust2 within tf2.

New weapons also often backfired rather than were a good thing. The only thing people liked was that it created a hectic situation which completely altered the way people played. A fresh moment.
But at the same time, that hectic situation was a massive problem towards those that wanted a normal game. You had to dump in a hard class limit to get some degree of regular play, or just disable the weapons entirely.

The community at some point got massively split up, and each part simply degraded at their own pace. And the first part to die was the community server part. Because the average quality of those servers was horrible because instead of promoting good server groups, people rather abused it for advertising reasons.
Once those servers were killed, you only had a few places remaining for custom content.

Now yes, they were adding in community maps. But outside of borneo, those maps are generaly balanced poorly. Even the late valve maps were flooded with balance issues. Sure, it works for 6v6, but thats because 6v6 was a relatively balanced form in the first place (you cant lock down a game with 6 people).

This matchmaking system caused community servers, and therefor a lot of custom content to die. People stick to valve servers. Guess what that does to custom maps. It doesnt promote good balance.

Its that tf2 has a seperate competetive situation which uses their own mod and map pool, as thats still the main source of information regarding good maps. And as long as hots has such similar competetive pool, it can do quite a bit for the game since even without new maps, hero reworks can still shift around quite a bit.

That TF2 survived for over 10 years doesnt mean hots will, but even hots would still be able to survive for quite some time. It already is nearly half way, and would still be able to survive for 2 years with the content it gets now. Thats already half way. A quite decent result.

TF2 only became a goofing around nature type of game because it doesnt involve leveling in each match. But as it also doesnt involve a rank in pub games, it keeps that nature standing.
But what is completely forgotten is that many of the more skilled people at that time left PvP completely. Sure, they gathered a few new people in exchange for that. But the average skill in tf2 is currently that low that even with gold skills you would be GM.

TF2 dies in a diffirent way. And for many is already dead, thats why people switched to overwatch that easily when it was released. Even though overwatch gameplay wise is not even closely competing with it (overwatch has horrible balance and mechanics compared to tf2).

And that you left during matchmaking confirms what i am stating aswel. TF2 is dying just like this game, its just a diffirent pace. But remember that even after matchmaking was introduced, its taking a long time for tf2 to die. Hots might very well take a long time aswel.

I went to the American server a couple of days ago. The search options are expanded, and this is in quick matches, on the tank, and this tells us a lot. Well, until devs not open the MMR, not rework the MM system, not unban all players, not rework the punishment system, not add a normal group search system, guilds, the game shall die slowly.

What about Brawl? I queue at 11PM-01AM and I play against one player and 4 bots are on both sides.

Meaning I am literally the only person besides that other player who was queuing in Brawl on the entire server.

It hasn’t happened once, I’ve had it happen 5+ times recently. Not an issue at peak times like 15-18PM though.

People on reddit also say it happens frequently, since 1+ year ago (when we had more brawls than just the Lost Cavern variants).

On a side note, the thread had a very interesting SS of Asian server matchmaking. I wouldn’t call it healthy.

I won’t go into everything you said because there is a lot of truth in it and you address topics that I simply don’t know enough about. So please see this quote here as a placeholder.
The reason why I left with matchmaking is that it undermined what I thought TF2 was until that point. When we discuss with friends how it was “back then”, I always compare my TF2 experience with “meeting on a football / basketball court after school and just doing whatever”. You could do whatever you want on these servers, there was no hardcore push to stay competitive or play to win, I spent entire afternoons just sticky jumping and cabering peeps. If you stay insure to trade, that’s fine as well. It was its own community of laid back players. Those that wanted to do competitive stuff could do it and bash their heads in, we could stay in a different part of the map.
Back then, I played on a community server with 24/7 special delivery. I know the mode is not liked much, but I just love the map.

And then matchmaking came and threw everything out the window. All of the sudden you are throw onto a server, play a few short rounds for the win, then you get connected to something new. It’s just not how I like the game to be. It’s all about getting medals now, points, winning. Not my thing. I prefer a 16 man conga line.

I also did minor community stuff, I made new skins for weapons. Just the texture though. But thanks to TF2 I learned how to do that, I learned about bump mapping and also learned Blender (even though I never finished something in it).

/nostalgia out

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Yet this is exactly the issue i was facing from the opposite side. Those conga players were dumped into games where a bit more serious play was often welcome.
And note, it wasnt in a way of ‘we must win’, it was more in a way of ‘let just play as a team and see how far we can get’ while in the meantime just enjoying the chat.
Matchmaking also destroyed those.

That tells me that even with taht 16man conga line, you probably were also often enough trying to win. But simply just accepted the foolish moments that sometimes happen (note, on the server i played on usualy that was no diffirence).

I now realy wonder which servers you usualy have been playing on :stuck_out_tongue:. Could easily have been the same group.


To note, i have been most actively mapping in mvm (before that i had some projects that mostly failed, but were more often just a proof of concept). And my best 2 pieces of work in that have been: mvm_giza and mvm_skullcove (and with that assisting on mvm_area52, both in its initial idea, and mission making, creating a tc_ + plr_ combination. and double pl_ using the plr_ interface). And also documenting quite a lot in guides on how MvM works technicaly.

In even such state that there have been quite a lot of MvM maps after i stopped playing tf2.

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I’d say roughly 50:50, I did enjoy both aspects.

After looking at the causes for North American players’ longer wait times and instances of not queuing together

No they are basically making best match a fall back so that they get faster games.

I think they looked at Europe where there is just 1 server and they looked at the US where we have 2 servers in Chicago and LA, and saw that Europe was able to make games faster with little impact and decided to implement a hybrid solution that overall treats NA as one region with preferences for games with lower ping servers. If we had LOL sized playerbases would this be an issue ? probably not. Is this a good thing overall ? yes.

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QM is completely broken now, its unbearable to play with noobs on either team. The matchmaking is wide open now. There is zero effort to correlate levels. Its just a massive clusterf**k now.
Draft isn’t much better.
This game keeps getting worse and worse with time, Activision literally does NOT gaf.

RIP Blizzard

It’s the (lack) of playerbase, not the matchmaking system. Unless we can prove with reasonable evidence there’s similar leveled teams that are queueing at the same time, we can’t judge.

Difficulty has nothing to do with it.