Devs please answer this about DW balance data

I don’t think that’s necessary. Like the dev said here, they get enough data even with a 90% banrate.

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Understood that from AZJackson reply. Though it probably takes more time?

Two things mainly:
1- Get the hero balanced as soon as possible.
2- Get the hero to a “playable” state in draft play as soon as possible.

Just anything to help the devs get data/balance patches out faster. I am aware they work their butts off with lots of other issues: hero releases, new content, map rotations, hero development, maintenance, art, etc., but balance patches feel that they take a bit too long. Then, after that wait, we sometimes get slight, just very slight changes, starting the balance cycle again. All that time, the hero is out of draft play and making QM more challenging.

On the other side, our developers, usually make balance changes, on spot, precise and fair after enough data is gathered. While reverting changes happen, they are not that often, which I don’t mind as long as it adds fun to the gameplay (Rehgar Ancestral says Hi).

I just wish, getting a new hero balanced to draft play didn’t take as long as it is now, especially with new heroes.

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Idk, I feel like they would still release a balance patch after 3 weeks of a hero release because of how much work they have to put into it and other things. Even if they could balance a hero 1 week after a release, I don’t think it’s healthy for the game to force players to play against an OP hero in draft.

There was a time where we had no bans and there was always that one hero that was really really good. Basically the team that had first pick would win. That was not healthy for the game or healthy for the players.

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Agree. The key wording being OP. I think the hero should be, hence the original post, slightly overtuned. I am okey with this so people actually use it. But between slightly overtuned and OP is a sea of difference. Is there a need to release them in and OP state as opposed to slightly overtuned. One is okey, the other is not precisely by what you mention in your second paragraph.

Just FYI, and only pertinent to your reference of there was a time, I was present in that time. 5 year player. Beta account 40 portrait so I understand what you mean.

That is why I had to qualify my answer to, maybe, allow him in Unranked Draft only? And if the hero is truly OP on release, maybe bring it down a quite a few notches ASAP and not take over a month. In the conundrum we are at.

Slightly overtuned release is right. OP release is unhealthy, please fix asap.
Which bring us to the debate if DW is OP or just slightly overtuned. Which purposefully don’t want to get into and not the object of the thread. And it’s been discussed too much and my opinion doesn’t matter.

Give the dragon a chance to see draft play. You think he will still be perma banned even after the upcoming changes? Diablo was “fixed” in that regard.

The thing is, we never know if a hero will turn out to be OP, bad or anything. The devs can have an idea when they do their tests, but they can’t test everything.

Even if the new hero turns out to be OP, I think the devs would still only patch him after 3 weeks instead of in 3 days or even 1 week. From what I’ve seen, they don’t just release a patch for 1 thing asap unless it’s something really really important. Let’s look at Samuro for example, he’s been bugged since his rework and the Dev said in another thread that they fixed it for the next patch, but they don’t even know when that will be. That considering that the bug is really annoying and can really put Samuro in a bad position. I feel like the Devs like to follow their schedule.

I mean, the is being played even being banned 90% of the time. Those 10% matches are definitely a lot of data already. And that is considering a website that the majority of the playerbase don’t even use, so the data the devs have is based on way more games than those 1000 we have there (looking at diamond + and hero level 5+). If we look at everything on SL, he has 6k games played. That is quite a lot already.

I really think the devs just don’t have time to balance everything asap. That is also why they changed the balance patch to 3 weeks after release instead of 2 weeks.


Well, if it was always as simple as just dodging, then most of the roster would be trash-tier.

It can be quite disheartening when you’re playing a hero like Qhira against him. Your E is completely useless, he can shrug off most of your damage, and he has plenty of damage and sustain to beat you in a 1v1, especially without the right talents. Depending on your build, you’ll struggle to even get through his first plate before needing to back out, never mind killing him.

Just dont use that monitor while looking at a hub
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Qhira doesn’t mind DW at all as long as you aren’t going W build, at least from what I’ve noticed. AA build specifically works wonders against DW since, once he’s below 50%, DW has to run away fast to not get Qhira’d.

Really is hilarious watching a DW run away from you.

Even if they weren’t getting enough draft games due to bans, I don’t feel that QM data would be useless for roughing out the initial balancing. QM will provide data on Deathwing vs everyone, in every possible comp. Draft may see counters to DW banned, and not provide meaningful insights about those matchups. If anything, QM provides too much information, that needs to be carefully examined to find helpful information. Draft is possibly a little too limited in its scope, and may exclude relevant information.

Both modes could be helpful initially, but subsequent balancing should focus on draft.

Good post. I believe this is what devs are doing atm. My grip is the time consumed in order to achieve QM and Draft average balance. While the data gathers, mostly after release, the hero is “wrecking QM” while also “out of draft.”

Which can be offset, by what Darak and I were talking about before, the degree of the “overpoweredness” vs “slight overtuning” at the initial release.

Some people don’t like to face the facts… the data on every third party site said the hero was broken but people will always be stuck in their own little world.


It’s good to hear that Worldbreaker is getting buffed, but I hope the nerfs to Destroyer form aren’t too heavy handed. It is already going to require an absolutely massive buff to worldbreaker just to make it viable since neither Lava Burst (low damage, non-existant DoT damage) nor Earth Shatter (mediocre damage, slow travel, worthless stun effect) are worth the energy cost to use. Nerfing his only (currently) viable kit, and giving a minor tweak to his (currently) non-viable kit is just going to change the situation from “Deathwing works well against incompetent players” to “Deathwing gets to sit on the bench with Xul.”


His lvl 4 “Heat Wave” talent needs a massive nerf, both to damage and also to the duration, its ridiculous when paired up with the lvl 1 talent “Dragon soul”, i just use Incinerate and walk between enemy heroes, wait for the cd use it again, and just melt them away without any trouble…

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Consider that it doesn’t even trigger his +100% ability dmg trait for some reason.

Conflagration at lvl16 does.

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Buff Tracer & Genji :3

Damage could use a tweak, maybe, but the duration is only 8 seconds.

That’s not a heat wave problem, that’s a bad player problem.

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I don’t see how you see any synergy between those 2 talents. Dragon souls’ healing doesn’t work for heat wave damage, only for the initial blast of Inicinerate. Sure they’re both great talents, but they’re as good picked separately as together - there’s no internal synergy.

If you want even more healing from lvl1 dragon soul - Dragon’s Ire is the only lvl4 talent that can increase that (because it buffs incinerate’s damage directly).

P.S. I assume you’re talking about destroyer form; there is synergy for lava burst, but that’s a terrible choice for healing even with both talents (still less and in a much smaller area).

More comments like this please desu jackson.