Can we talk about samuro?

Aba doesn’t make him win more though :p.

Looking at global stats: exact same winrate for aba+samuro vs samuro only over all ranks. And if we filter to master+dia only, it’s actually even -1% for aba+samuro vs any samuro (Heroesprofile, taking into account entire patch 55 to have enough data). So again, extra annoying, but not really that good.

P.S. I always thought it’s not a strong combo, but I actually thought aba+sam would have at least a small bump up in actual winrate coz ppl don’t know how to deal with it; apparently people actually do know how to deal with it pretty well.

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I know from personal experience.
Im not really intrested in stats because they dont talk about the individual player.

Otherwise every medivh is underpowered and probius are must bans
Im getting deleted very fast with abasam

Well I know from personal experience it’s not really strong too (it’s not really weak either - average). Obviously, if you let an aba onetrick and samuro onetrick get what they want you’ll have a tough game , but even those aren’t that bad. Both aba and samuro are split soak heroes so having 2 of them doesn’t really add to it; they are also both relatively weak in teamfights so having 2 of them is actually detrimental; the samuro hat combo kind of overcomes that weakness, but it’s still weaker than 2 strong tf heroes. Stats are really kind of on point in this case, I’d say - aba doesn’t really make samuro lose, but it most definitely does not improve it either. And the biggest problem for the duo is that samuro counters kind of indirectly counter aba too (so really wreck their day).

I’d say the absolute simplest way to wreck any aba-sam setup would be to just play a classic 4-1 with a durable double soaker (e.g., xul, sonya, yrel or dehaka can’t die to hatsam) and strong 4man, maybe with some extra focus on hard push on the 4man even (e.g., could be some zarya or tyrael variations).
3-1-1 would probably not be the best idea unless you can afford 2 durable solos (as is the case playing vs any gank-centric setups).

P.S. The frustrating games vs aba-sam are when you get wrecked in draft, but that’s exactly the same for any draft fail that gets identified and punished.

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Um, personally I think he and his clones hit like a truck.

That’s a lot of work to deal with one hero. Meanwhile, you still have to deal with his team. If it takes 3 people to stop him…

Just for fun, lets build a draft that seems good, but is really bad and abusable (e.g., by that sam-aba): let’s grab “op” valla, get a mage (coz for some reason ppl think they always need it) - liming, get stitches as tank (coz why not) with tyrande for the hook combo and finish it off with “strong” solo laner artanis. The draft looks kind of OK on the surface and does have a clear plan, but it just has so many weaknesses and can be completely dumpstered in draft: there’s multiple squishies, no real protective tank and almost no safe soak (artanis can’t really double soak, so 4-1 is not an option) - any dive comp with extra soak will destroy it (so a variation of aba-sam works just fine).

Yeah sinds both of them are late picks the draft is usually an issue.

Prefer to pick it last but in solo/duo queue.
So I need to take what I can

If aba samuro counters me hard im screwed
But samuro solo is not a big of a deal because the clones have fixed targeting

i usually go % heal of hp on level 1, by 20 he’s a monster though, with the reduced stealth + blink, basically never run out of hp for me.

That’s my prefered build as well. I usually go full E.

I have. That’s why I said in my post “He’s really boring to play.” Maybe you should read what people say before you get butthurt about it.

Stacks don’t matter in hots

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Samuro was a terrible idea from the get-go. They banked on him being hard to play. Instead, he is hard to play against. He owns anything he wants. He ruins any hope of fun.

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Valla Q build or greymane with his aa 7 quest full is really scary

Same with W build dehaka or shotgun build jaina who can endlessly get hero stacks.

But yes half of the stack quest are dissapointing

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If you have, then you should be aware that Samuro isn’t cancer, but a strong and balanced hero with weaknesses. But since he is “just cancer” for you, it seems you still have no idea how to play with him nor against him. Git gud.

My biggest gripe with Sam is that his level 10 talents are literally an easy mode / hard mode toggle. I want to play Sam with the playstyle of tricking my enemies using high APM but that playstyle has to wait until half way through the game.

It’s the equivalent of playing Medivh if he didnt have access to portals until level 10. The whole reason why you play Medivh is to have fun with portals.

Idk, there’s got to be a better way to design Sam.

There’s no balancing Sam, Tracer, Zeratool, or other extremely dive heavy/slippery assassins when Abathur exists. As soon as those assassins are mobile + decent damage then aba places them over the top as a duo even if the stats say “Aba + sam has actually negative winrate together and shows in high elo it’s less effective than low elo”

Think of Aba as a stronger Yuumi in LoL and how Yuumi already pushed the boundaries of what was “fair” in LoL.

I have a few comments regarding this subject of Samuro, but I might as well start off with a disclaimer.

I have Samuro at level 153, so there may be some level of bias in my opinion.

With that over, let’s get into it.

Hard to Kill
Yes, Samuro can be pretty difficult to kill if the Samuro is playing safely and is prioritizing survival over actually doing something of value.
But it comes with the territory when the majority of Samuros skills are survival-based.

His Q, E and D are all abilities that can be used to stay alive/escape. If a Samuro are saving all these abilities for the sake of survival only, then yes he can be very hard to kill. (This is even more true if he also took survival talents over damage talents)

But it comes at a cost of not taking risks to do proper damage or finishing off heroes.

It’s like Azmodan. If he wants to, then he can also be exceedingly hard to kill — if he only ever throws Q’s from a long distance. But he’s losing out on a lot of potential by never taking risks.

His damage
Samuro is a unique hero in that 100% of his damage comes from auto attacks, aside from his level 10 Bladestorm. Although Bladestorm is more of an AoE ability; his AA’s are stronger against a single target.
While blinds can work against him, he does have the option of using Q or D to cleanse those off, but that comes at the cost/risk of using one of his survival skills in order to cleanse himself to continue AA’ing.

But what REALLY works against Samuro are block talents, particularly the ones that give a flat amount of block for x seconds, like Kharazim’s Earth Ally or Stukov’s heal-block talent at 4.

Varian’s Block and Illidans Evasion also works well against Samuro.

Since his damage is so based on AA’s so is his damage much more sustained and limited. His only burst would be when he’s attacking someone enough times to incur a natural crit (3-4 times) followed by an activation of his W allowing for two crits in a row.

He’s not the type that can jump in and just pop a bunch of abilities to do some quick AoE burst like Zeratul or others.

Talent dependency

His damage is honestly speaking completely laughable until at least level 7. Before that, his damage is pretty subpar.

And his next damage talent tier that adds proper damage is level 16. *

His waveclear is also pretty weak until level 10 when he can pick Bladestorm, which is a very strong waveclear ability no doubt, but it sacrifices Illusion Mastery which is a very strong survival skill.

Strengths and Weaknesses

Samuro is a 1v1 specialist by all means. When you are alone against him, you wont have much time to figure out which one is the real Samuro and you wont have the time to get rid of the Illusions in a timely manner which allows him to use his swap however he pleases.

Samuro’s strength comes from sneaking up on the backline while the enemy team is occupied and hitting them where it hurts or by chasing down low-health fleeing targets.

But therein is his weakness; he can’t make a move into an enemy team if they don’t have an opening. If they are moving as a team covering for each other and will instantly blow you apart if you get too close.
One time I was against a team that was moving together concisely; if I ever moved even a bit too close, the enemy ETC would stun me and I would get blown to bits. If I used my illusions, the illusions would die within a second thus rendering my swap ability useless as I had nothing to swap to.

ARAM is a good showcasing of Samuro’s weakness. Samuro is exceedingly weak at ARAM; there is little room to reach the backline and for large parts of the game so are they close to towers so little room to chase. The enemy will simply blow up Samuro and his illusions if he tries to make any moves and his illusions will just feed their quest-stacks. Typically Samuros in ARAM just end up being healing sponges that does less damage than the tanks.

While saying “Just stay as a 5man group” can seem pretty excessive as a strategy for dealing with 1 hero, so isn’t it that different than when you have to deal with certain other heroes.
If a Zagara is splitpushing alone and an Illidan uses The Hunt and kills Zagara, then she’s only got herself to blame. To counter such an Illidan, you would also roam as a proper group, as Illidan would have a much harder time in a 5v5 than he would in a 1v1.

But what about Aba?

Aba+Samuro is, at least in my opinion, an exceedingly powerful combo.

This does rely on that this is actually a proper Aba+Samuro combo and not just an aba and samuro who happened to be on the same team but the Aba is more concerned about split pushing and hatting minions than to support Samuro. (Or that the Samuro actually has a clue on how to play Samuro).

Aba and Samuro have insane talent synergy. As mentioned above, 100% of Samuro’s damage comes from Autoattacks, disregarding Bladestorm and activating Critical Strike.

Which means that Abathur’s 25% increased attack speed is akin to a 25% increase in damage for Samuro, not counting the damage abilities of the hat or the constant healing/shielding.

Combine that with the level 16 Abathur “W slows enemies hit” with Samuros level 16 “100% crit chance vs CC’ede targets.” This is a huge powerspike. Giving Samuro an AoE slow as well as giving him the tools to crit several times in a row can do some major hurt.

Abathur’s level 20 upgrade to Symbiote that puts a smaller hat on a nearby other hero also gets good value from Samuro since it can go on an illusion.

Taking advantage of this combo in Quickmatch with a friend allowed me to have a winrate between 80% and 90%, while mostly just being a duo-sized group and not 5man groups.

If you want to see some shenanigans of Aba+Samuro, then check out the videos below.

Some videos of Aba+Samuro
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Samuro is a troll hero, only there to ruin what little fun you might have left playing this game. The only people who defend his poor design are Samuro mains that don’t trust themselves to be able to stay alive with a hero that doesn’t come frontloaded with an escape every few seconds.

Everyone knows he needs a nerf. Especially the people so desperate to defend him.

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You don’t need to kill samuro, you just need to win against his lane. Zoners with powerful wave clear can stay clear of his close combat or illusion rush, and you can see his invisibility cloak a mile away if you’re attentive enough. Provided you keep your eye out for ganks.
I have no experience playing as Samuro though. I only played against him as a solo laner.

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Wrong.
He is an Orc Hero.

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No, that’s Zul’jin.

Interesting, because I am samuro player, but I also play more heroes like Varian, D.Va or Leoric and I don’t struggle to say alive with them as well.

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