Here’s the thing with comparing Butcher to Nazeebo
Butcher is meant in lore and gameplay to be a ruthless killer that kills everything and takes the meat, eventually becoming strong enough to take on anyone with each soul he devours.
Nazeebo is a not a ruthless killer and has a kit WAY more suited for pve over Butcher.
Don’t get me wrong i do like the idea of butcher gaining extra protection if he is willing to farm more for his team but this makes him more like Nazeebo in which he gains extra “health” by killing minions
Overall good post and not a bad suggestion at all, but i think to keep butchers “lore” and to not make him to similar to Nazeebo this wouldn’t be a good idea, but balance wise i do like it
They have differences, yes.
They also excel in different scenarios because of it.
I’ve seen some Butchers not get any stacks until very late in the game and still contribute to team fights, however a Zul’jin or Nazeebo that’s been denied stacks can have a lot of trouble keeping pace.
Zul’jin is very much a sustained damage hero while Butcher relies on bursting targets down quickly, which is why he’s so fragile in the first place.
Even a fully stacked Butcher can have trouble staying on the damage charts because you’re not built for poking or trading, all you want is a quick kill. I’m not saying he doesn’t want damage to do that but I find that the slightest bit of backup from your team makes securing those kills much easier.
I can quote what I told the butcher main but I also suggested that instead of flat bonus attack per meat, you could have meat count separate from bonus attack damage boosts. The lower your meat count, the more minions would give bonus attack. However, the more meat you get, the less they give. Instead you’d farm heroes for the “real” 0.5 bonus attack per hero meat late game. This would encourage butcher to be involved in teamfights, yet not completely punish him (or his team too much) if splitpushing or alternative strategies were used
I’m also willing to make a new hero based on a Blizzard NPC like Grommash Hellscream, other popular targets. I was just thinking I could give a rework and get my idea in at the same time.
Artanis literally just got an attack damage per hero hit quest.
Why change butcher into another one?
That being said I think this game could use a bruiser that’s more focused on damage than anything else. Most of them are an awkward combination of mediocre cc and decent survivability with serviceable damage, then they accidentally made Imperius because they forgot not being good at clearing waves or taking camps is only a weakness in QM.
Let me know if Artanis is good in about a month or not. Not to knock on if he’s bad or not as blizzard could just buff Artanis if he’s bad, but the option for butcher is there.
There’s been a lot of discussion about it already and along with the baseline health buffs general consensus is that Artanis is in a much better spot right now. PoA greatly outclasses SM.
In QM I’ve seen people feeding him a good 300+ stacks each game. 30% aa damage is nothing to scoff at.
Is your objection to the changing butcher meat quest and how it works based on not wanting to have an unnecessary rework on a hero, or the concept itself? If I were to use the trailing off stat from minions the more total stacks a hero has, is that okay for a new hero’s kit?
Mostly to just changing butcher itself.
I don’t have any objections to new hero ideas themselves but I’m adverse to being happy-go-lucky about changing around hero identities when they’re not exactly under preforming.
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This. He should always be incentivized to first and foremost get meat from enemy players.
Why would you have meat dropping from minions past 200 stacks when his quest is completed. Do you know how much dmg he would have end game then. Then you would see Butchers running around with maybe 7-800 stacks if he gets a potato team to win over.
That’s under the assumption the bonus damage ratio isn’t changed or the quest reward itself. It’s fine to leave butcher as is. I’ll just make custom heroes and deal with what heroes exist (I don’t play butcher)
I disagree.
Imo, the only reason Butch gets meat from minions in the first place is to get a “training wheel” for stacking before the quest is finished.
Once the quest is done, he’s no longer able to easily get meat.
So this whole minion-meat stuff is there so he’s not that easily punished by his enemies while he’s still farming (since that’s his counterplay, to play safe and deny him kills).
Giving him bonuses lategame for minions is either broken, or meaningless since it’s so easy to kill waves at that point of the game.
Why make him a Bruiser in the first place?..
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His current kit can’t be buffed as his damage is so high. Since there are a lot of people that use butcher apparently then we can keep him the way he is instead of reworking, hope blizzard doesn’t rework butcher with no ideas how to rework, and instead I’ll just hope for a new hero I like to be made
This is the silliest thing I read here for a while.
Sure ppl can dislike or disagree with reworks, but thinking they would rework Heroes with no ideas… :'D
Butch needs a rework, but imo, totally not your ideas.
Good luck with the hoping.
If you have any better ideas on how to rework butcher and still maintain his identity you can share it so blizzard can get ideas.
Imo, they’re already past on the idea-gathering.
Already a rework in the works you think? Reworks are nice but at this stage in the lifetime of the game the only rework I would possibly think is worthwhile is DVA. Otherwise new heroes should be chugged out and old heroes get a numbers buff or something.
I’m just giving suggestions on if a rework had to happen for butcher, this is along the lines of what I’d do
Considering Butch has bigger issues than Cassia did, yes.
I suspect the removal of the meat loss on death compensated with lower bonuses from it.
I also think we’ll get talents that trigger on kills and last for a short period of time.
Imo, it should be close to finished now.
I suspect a new Hero or D.va-rework next. (My bet is on the Hero.)
Sure,
Have Butcher players randomly run off to kill minions even more.
What could go wrong?
That means the player is bad, not the hero. You could say the same for nazeebo players that choose to farm minions over team fighting. You could say the same thing about stitches going for globes double soaking instead of team fighting(stitches is weak but the point is the play style of the player is at fault)