Buffs make other hero's weak

General Discussion
1

So with the ana changes making ana be more like other healers, being able to stand toe to toe with certain assassins now, getting more sustain healing etc… and still giving ana her insane range heals and 100% reduce healing.

you need to buff up other support healers, tyrande is a joke now, why play tyrande when i can play ana who is superior in every way.

2

Tyrande grant stun, armor debuff, an almost no-cd cleanse and vision. Plus a zoning tool or mass invisibility with her ulti.
To make your point, Tyrande was not the best to pick.

But some Healer could need a talent’s rework to improve their performance, nothing too deep but some overall tuning for a more efficient gameplay.

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3

I don’t play Tyrande to be super heal-y. I think with certain builds she can reduce the chances of your team dying in other ways (stuns, damage reduction+slow, straight up damaging the other team a lot, lowering armor so the team can kill them faster). She can chase down low health people easily with her stun and owl, which is pretty satisfying. She usually doesn’t make top healer but she isn’t useless, that’s a given.

4

i agree with u tyrande does have some stuff all healers do some more than others.

ana who has better range healing gets more HP than tyrande who has to put her self more at risk up close?

why nerf tyrande armor trait or other things and still give ana her insane things, why not a 70% reduce healing nerf 100% reduce healing is way to good the best ability in the game besides long CC, 100% reduce healing can deny healing ults or wait until low hp on a hero and that healer can’t save them or if you have a good burst team that target is 100% dead unless your team has a hero like uther or medivh with some immune protection.

ana still has way more than tyrande, sleep setups, finishers with eye of Horus plus above, ana’s stuff feels way more effective than tyrandes tool kit and it can still be used at range from safety.

5

The thread’s title is misleading. It should be “buffs make other heroes less desirable”, or something like that. Cuz other heroes don’t actually get weaker… Unless they play against the buffed hero.

Anyways, while I generally agree to some extent with the OP, the devs can’t really buff other heroes when 1 is buffed, cuz things will just turn into a huge buff spiral.

As for the example you gave: Tyrande is still the 2-nd most wanted support in competitive games. And I’d pick her over Ana because:

  • She is less vulnerable to dive, due to her being able to heal self, as well as her damage reductions.
  • She can’t miss her heals
  • Her heal is fairly strong
  • She has 2 charges of soft cleanse, on short cooldown (provided she can land basic attacks)

But honestly said, I like other supports (like Whitemane, Brightwing and Deckard) better than these 2.

6

I think you’re looking at the wrong comparison for a healer who actually needs buffs because of Ana LOL. Tyrande is already in a rather solid spot with a rather multi-faceted / bloated toolkit as it is, and sufficient healing for a focus healer (bear in mind Ana is a sustain / AOE healer now).

If you want to look at other healers you want to consider Whitemane for instance who could benefit from additional utility added into her toolkit to better compete. Or Auriel who could also stand to gain additional support utility with her kit to expand on. Or looking at Lt. Morales’ grenade quest, lowering the 30 heroes hit requirement would be a huge improvement.

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7

but i did play a match has tyrande vs ana and felt at a extreme disadvantage vs this hero and this was QM so i had no choice, i would never play a pick game as tyrande vs ana especially after ana’s buffs.

8

Tyrande will struggle in QM or lower ranks because she is a focus healer… Meaning she tends to do better in teams where she can focus on 1-2 targets at a time, and in QM environments her healing tends to be spread thin.

Whereas Ana and other sustain / AoE healers will do better in uncoordinated or chaotic environments as there is more demand for sustain / AoE healing due to people not dodging / using defensives properly.

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9

if i wanted to compete vs better healers i would obviously pick the easier healers that are most commonly used in matches.

but you said it yourself drop tryande and pick someone basically who is better and easier to use.

your forgetting the point i’m trying to get across.

10

I am not saying it is ease of use as it is just playing the wrong healer in the wrong environment / composition.

11

well when is the right environment, why pick tyrande if i want single target healing ill just pick uther or others who do way better in that category though.

also tyrande cannot at all save single targets, if the team has to much burst damage or reduce healing.

12

Because she has a lot more kill potential as compared to Uther whom you tend to draft in coordinated environments for burst protection or an off tank of sorts… She is actually drafted in burst compositions because she compliments them well, focusing on a target with her armor reduction + follow up with stun.

It’s a situational thing because she does have ways to save her allies, her cleanse at level 7 or the spell armor. In addition, her stun provides a good zoning tool. And at level 13 her owl becomes a shrink ray to reduce enemy damage output. Couple this with her level 1 talent that heals from her AA, which is actually quite a strong heal.

But otherwise, the best way to use her is offensively, this is why as I mentioned she is used in burst compositions frequently, as the best defense for Tyrande is a good offense – isolating a target and bursting them down quickly with the armor reduction, stun, and slow she provides.

13

okay ill stop and agree with you if you can answer me one thing.

what does more burst healing shadow stalk or starfall this should be easy if you play tyrande alot.

14

Starfall due to the CDR it provides, meaning more uptime for her Q (but this is more situational).

Whereas Shadow Stalk is more used offensively or in certain cases defensively to stop certain heroics from targeting heroes, e.g. Fenix purification salvo. Shadow stalk is not a burst healing, just look at the healing numbers and that it is a healing over time over 10 seconds LOL.

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15

very good i gave u a like :smile:, alot of people actually don’t even know that.

i go huntress fury and iceblade arrows for more CDR. either way ill just be done with her and play other healers for the time.

16

You can’t burst heal with a heal over time… If the healing was upfront and at higher values then it would be a different story.

17

Ana is overtuned, true, doesn’t make Tyrande bad though… Her downside is quite a huge one in terms of requirement to have a good peel/aware tank, even more so than other healers, but once that requirement is relatively well-met, Tyrande outshines a lot of others in game

She even has build diversity to re/act upon the map requirements and opponent’s dps, which is at the very least = quite a luxury that most other healers simply won’t/don’t have

Here are few examples:

1 = Opponent’s main dps is Gul’Dan or Jaina and their melee is ability-based damage as well (or for some strange reason went for Li Ming + another Mage) = Khaldorei resistance
2 = Opponents have strong CC and disabling effects, or at least don’t have constant poke hero like Genji or Tracer = Celestial Atunement
3 = Opponents have strong burst ? = owl at lvl13, 40% damage reduction of their main DPS hero is quite the help, plus could risk with the Owl talent on lvl4 to pierce damage reduction throughout multiple heroes of opponents
4 = Opponents took Genji or Tracer to “chase after you 1v1 in the back” ?, get Mark build lvl1 (Maybe CD red. on lvl7 as well)… Zeratul on the other hand can 1-turn-combo KO you but takes time to do that, so probably best would be to take Khaldorei and lvl13 Owl to survive that
5 = Teamfight goes well but seems your team lacks waveclear and pushed back without opportunity to “breathe” ? = get Mark at lvl13/16, it’s like you mark the catapult and hit it, everything gets cleared, doesn’t matter, double, tripple, quadruple ? wave, double merc ? = just shoot at your marked target everything will get cleared within 10-15 sec :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley:

Soo yes, Tyrande has the LUXURY of build adjustment, something most of other healers (most of the time) would dream to have

18

The point is that, imho, each Healer (and more generally each Hero) has its spot and each of them can shine in certain situations. Not always Morales is good and in the same way there are games where Ana will not be better than Tyrande or where Lili can be outstanding.

They should buff up some of the most undertuned Healer atm to give them more appeal, but it’ll be impossibile to get a perfect balance with such a variety of kits around.

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19

Tyrande and ana are miles ahead other support with maybe the exception of stellar malf or kharazim in a coordinated blow up comp (and then he is not taken for his healing output).
Both of them would need to see diablo and mg nerf bat.