Azmodan does not fit in ARAM at all. He can be 90% effective and stay completely out of danger. If he is patient there is no chance against him. Sure his win rate is not crazy because many people try to laser people they shouldn’t. Games where one team or both have azmodan are inherently unfun. The whole of ARAM would be so much better without him in it.
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Do what I do, I “ban” Azmodan by not picking him when he’s offered to me on the draft screen. I don’t agree that Azmo needs removing, as any hero in ARAM with strong wave clear and AOE, can feel too strong on a one lane map, particularly if the enemy team is lacking in those areas.
A concession could be made to disable Azmodan’s Gluttony quest, if that is over performing, as it’s his easiest build and no doubt the strongest in ARAM. Franky, I’m surprised there aren’t more complaints about Nazeebo in ARAM, as he can be just as annoying as Azmodan, but his damage is less flashy and noticeable, so perhaps that’s why.
ARAM complaints of this nature, I struggle to understand them. ARAM is supposed to be a mess, the demands for “balance” in this mode seems antithetical to a random mode, played on a single lane, with a blind draft and limited MM.
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Personally, I would rather face three Azmos than one good Zagara in ARAM. Given that I prefer to play tanks or bruisers, Azmo is annoying, but not lethal. Zagara will destroy me, then go take all my buildings.
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Yes, Zag is another hero who can really be a pain in ARAM. I hate slippery slope arguments, but if we ban Azmodan, then people will just find yet another hero to complain about.
It’s not really possible to balance ARAM, and I’m not sure why people want to.
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From what I can tell, people don’t want balance, they want abnormal win rates. When they lose, they seem to try to find excuses other than , “I didn’t play well.” Or “They were better than me.”
If people wanted true balance, they would love the full mirror matches, as what could be more balanced than that?
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Would be better to just scrap ARAM all together and only have QM/AI/Ranked. Playing on a narrow-spaced 1 lane map was never going to be fun in the long run. And banning certain ults only proves its more broken then people realise. Whats the point at playing this mode when most games are decided on who has most range ?
And we already know what people will say if they had to play a mirror game with just any hero. Then people cant just yolo into everything. They suddenly have to play smart. People complain about mirors are bad only because they are affraid to be the one who plays the hero the worst.
Now they cant just smash buttens while hiding behind a tank but now have to play on thier own. Which most ARAM players are incable of doing.
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Azmo doesn’t need to be banned, you just need to learn to play against him.
If you are complaining strictly because of wave clear, well there are plenty of other heroes with just as effective wave clear.
His E and W and D are barely threats and manageable. Q’s are easy to dodge once you understand they have 10 second cooldowns and are predictable (spread out).
The biggest mistake teams make is not counter-clearing the enemy creep wave. There will be people on your own team who are capable of clearing the wave, but they choose to focus on enemy Heroes or their quest and not clear the wave. Next thing you know, there is creep wave hammering your towers.
Pro tip: Don’t stand in your own creep wave while clearing enemy creeps because Azmo will likely splash you with his Q. Stand to the side.
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Nazeebo and Zagara have slightly higher win rates than Azmo (they’re #1 and #2) according to heroesprofile, but I don’t think people have as much of an issue with them because you can kill them a lot easier. They have a lot less health and they’re not doing all their damage from 3 screens away.
Azmo just seems too easy and too safe in ARAM.
I’m like you… I don’t pick him too often in ARAM (if there’s anyone else I remotely like). I definitely get occasional complaints when I don’t take him, but I find him to be very boring.
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Its not strictly the wave clear. Its that he can fully participate in a team fight or finish someone off guaranteed if he is just patient and stays back. the only consequences for this is he might farm too slow, but if he hits multiple heroes every time then not even that is a consequence
His E and W and D are barely threats and manageable. Q’s are easy to dodge once you understand they have 10 second cooldowns and are predictable (spread out).
Of course you can dodge a random azmo q if thats the ONLY thing going on. but if azmo is smart and patient with the qs to only use when people are forced into certain spots he can finish off people running or hit the entire team. and like you pointed out, his q is his whole threat.
azmo vs alextraza is a great example of this. if azmo just times it so his q lands on her heal right after it goes off. Its completely unfun and there is no play against it.
You kind of explained to yourself how to defeat a team with an Azmo in ARAM, even if you don’t realize it.
You have to spread out. Make sure to delay his quest as long as possible. As long as he isn’t getting double+ Hero Q stacks, his quest gets delayed.
Most Aram Azmo’s will go Gluttony at 1 and Art of Chaos at 7, which all feeds in to what I am talking about.
Of course, if you have a team that doesn’t understand how to spread out with AZ, then he will finish his quest early and you will be eating heavy and more frequent Q’s. You have to shut down AZ from the start.
When AZ hits 200 then 400 stacks early, it can be tough to come back.
if all he’s doing is chuckin orbs, he’ll actually deal less damage than most assassins played decently well.
Is Azmo good in ARAM? Sure. Broken and banworthy? Absolutely not, Nazeebo and Zul’Jin both sport higher winrates and have more “broken” elements (Nazeebo can force structure damage like no other hero, and ZJ is one of the best hyper carries in the game even after the nerf)
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100% agree with OP.
Malf + Azmo is THE most oppressive combo in aram. The innervate + globe CD reduc is straight up stupid. He becomes a hellacious automatic trebuchet.
I’ve seen Azmo go literally any build, All Shall Burn, Demonic Invasion etc., in ARAM and own. He can stay out of the fray very well and getting to him in the backline isn’t worth it once his team peels and murders all the heroes that went back there to get him lol. And it’s kind of funny seeing an entire team do that sometimes just to kill one hero out of anger or frustration. His large health pool allows him to tank just long enough to hold out until his team can react.
For most of the game, Azmo always has towers to run to and no jungle to contend with in ARAM.
Therein lies the only way to beat him, zerg him before he zergs you, buuuut he zergs you by default no matter the skill level and zerging him takes some coordination and decent play. Therefore you have to do much more to beat him and he doesn’t have to do as much to beat you.
It’s for these reasons that I am on the ban Azmo from ARAM train.
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Malf is very strong ARAM, fortunately ~70% of Malfs throw by not taking sleeping roots.
Azmo is very weak to dive, however due to the way that ARAM works, Dive is generally much weaker than playing Poke since your permanently stuck 5v5ing.
Azmo is just a low skill celling character with good reward, sure you can just throw globes, but 9 times out of 10 a good Zag/Zuljin/Nazeebo will beat an equivalent Azmodan with 0 problems. This is especially true if there’s any delay in Globe stacks (a more mobile team with Lucio for example, or stasis effects in general)
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Azmo is pretty busted. Just played with him and won without any resistance. And in the very next game I played against him and lost without any resistance.
I’ve seen more people foregoing Nazeebo and Zuljin in favor of Azmo. Azmo just makes your team feel good. He requires less skill than Nazeebo and Zuljin. That puts your team’s mind at ease in knowing that even the biggest noob on the planet can still own with Azmo.
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…at max range and/or from very bad Azmo’s.
The cast time (excluding travel time) on Azmo’s Q’s are 0.5625 sec animation + 0.125 travel time at range 0. Baseline, his Q has a radius of 4 units (heroes base movement speed = 4.84 units/sec), a travel speed of 0.125s + 26 units/s, and a max range of 30. Even with super human reflexes (0.125s) cancelling out the minimum travel time it takes 0.82645s to move exactly 4 units (radius of orb)… which means it’s impossible (for a single player) to dodge a perfectly accurate Q from range 18 without some kind of escape/blink.
Yes, if you have vision on him, you can watch his 0.5625s animation and start to dodge where you think it’s going to land, but the circle on the ground still doesn’t show up until it’s launched.
Only really bad Azmo’s chuck orbs all game from max range on cooldown (when players aren’t grouped up) . A good Azmo throws from an intermediate range, which means there’s not much time for heroes to dodge it.
Yes, against really bad Azmo’s who stay at max range and just spam Q on cooldown (instead of using it intelligently), don’t time/aim the orb correctly, don’t wait for CC, engagements, bottlenecks, etc… his Q is very easy to dodge.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to throw from throw from closer range, wait for any CC or situations where players group up (there’s hundreds of reasons… CC, opposing team team engages with tank/melee, Alex’s healing circle, retreating through the gates, bottlenecks, taking camps, etc.).
I love how people just make these broad assumptions that Azmo is always chucking orbs from max range, his team doesn’t have any CC, the opposing team has no melee that is forced to group up (always a tank, 3 ranged and a ranged healer that can easily spread out), healers like Alex/Kharazim/Auriel/BW/Lucio that require proximity to heal don’t exist, there is only fighting out if the wide open (no walls/bottlenecks), every hero has a blink/teleport/escape to easily dodge, etc.
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This you below?
Q’s are easy to dodge from medium range too. Like I said, spread out and don’t stand in creep waves and you’ll be fine. If Azmo only hits 1 person at a time, it will take him too long to finish his quest. If you are Alexstraza, don’t lay down a heal circle up front where it can easily be AoE’d.
If Azmo is chucking short range orbs, it is your opportunity to go on him/displace/etc.
Rather than removing Azmodan, would it be an easy fix just to disable his Gluttony talent? That is his easiest build, and when you reach 200 stacks, the CDR for Q can become oppressive.
While I agree it’s not very challenging to win with Azmodan, whether you take AA or E build, it does require a little bit more skill to pull off than the ease Gluttony provides on a one lane map.
you seem familiar… Have we murdered together on the same team?
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I agree. I don’t think he should be removed.
In another “Azmo in ARAM” thread a couple weeks ago, I also said his Gluttony talent is the problem and that should be disabled when other people wanted him removed.
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I dont really care for your whataboutisms. Its not about winrate or i would have said that in the post. Its about AZMO being against the nature of ARAM. Hammer is banned for the range, abathur is obviously not for aram, TLV doesnt fit aram, Leoric would be op af rezzing all the time, cho gall doesnt work with the hero select. AZMO should be banned for the same reason Hammer is. All the champs you mentioned put themselves in danger to deal their dmg apart MAYBE from Naz whos spells are thrown then do their own thing. ZJ has like the most risky gameplay and yeah he can wreck with it but it fits in aram. Its NOT about winrate
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