Right now I’ve looked into the discussions of scaling relative to each hero and the information available (from other users’ input) is abysmal. Yes you know butcher, zuljin, and other heroes may scale to late game. However, there has not been a major discussion recently (or in all the years of the game ~5 years?) on the scaling of each hero. Even if we discussed scaling there will be differing opinions on what scaling means such as damage, utility, and healing. Teamfights vs splitpushing are also other metrics. I know murky scales well but does his 20+ levels outscale butcher in teamfights/laning? The game is in it’s later years and it wouldn’t be such a bad thing to list here and gather information for newer players to look into. It’s not usually a topic focused on as high elo prefer to 1. Win as soon as possible and 2. You’re not going to get to late game at high elo because you’ll get dumpstered.
Right now I’m looking for a ranged assassin for late game 20+ levels. I play Zuljin but butcher seemingly outscales in the sense his silence and stun engage is powerful. Yes, stuns screw over every champion (and his engage). It also screws over zuljin ult if you silence him before he’s dead. You can list general strong late game heroes but who are THE strongest per role? You can further clarify by teamfight, splitpushing— damage, healing, and whatever metric you want. We just need to discuss scalings more.
Its not about winning as fast as possible, its about taking the right advatages. At high elo’s games usually end between lvl 17-22. Its not only because we usually dont enter lvl 25 but we try not to feed the infinite stacking hero.
With naz we gank him often, with zj we avoid feeding him during skirmishes
Good players who play Naz or Butcher get stacked anyway, heroes like alarak are feared because of the high sadism they can get. But the focus on that hero is just higher. I cant say numbers because every match is diffirent
For ranged assassins, would you generally say Butcher is top? From personal experience butcher>zuljin assuming a decent kill count on both sides. Nazeebo is great for a “mage” ranged assassin but his toads generally won’t hit. For a mage I guess I’d still have to vote him as best mage assassin but for melee could it be butcher? Thrall has an infinite stack quest but it starts at level 7, too late for my liking. Murky is also up there but I don’t play murky so not sure where his power scale is among the late game heroes. I know he’s late game but in relation to being among them no idea.
Maybe butcher > zuljin? Murky a better splitpusher but not as strong teamfight as “x” hero? Some sort of data compilation in 2020 for newer and/or current lower elo players to look at. Possibly abathur a late game splitpush monster that can beat murky push? (I have no idea!)
let me ask a general question here? how many ppl know the know % scaling of heroes. 4 % btw, what heroes differ? i know graymain is 4.5%, ming ability are 3%, tracer ult is a 6%. there is quite a few things that tie in and make certain heroes late/early game. the tool tips are lacking in a sense.
Part of the problem with that is it depends on team comps and talent picks and maps and individual skill.
It’s easy to tell that Kael’Thas has better wave clear than Nova.
But a few games ago I pushed a KT out of lane as Nova, because he was bad enough to think that having good wave clear meant he had to use it all the time.
For new players, for low ranked players, tier lists don’t mean anything.
Tracer does scale more than the standard 4% but I don’t think she’s one of the best late game ranged assassins. Maybe if an abathur + healer comp it could work but generally no.
Scaling could either be stats, talents, or anything. Late game heroes are by default better “scaling” compared to early game heroes whether by stats, better movesets later, or talents/quests.
I know that Pyroblast has 5% scaling, but I agree that scaling should be included in tool tips. For example Fenix had 4,25% scaling on release. It was later nerfed to 4%, but literally nobody knew about it until we saw the nerf in the patch notes.
Orb has 3%, Missiles were buffed to 3,5%
At higher ranks people know how to finish a game. When they have advantage and enough strength to destroy core, they will go for it.
On the other hand in lower ranks people are often afraid of core, there was a huge thread about it here. It is common that at lvl 20 with 3 enemies down players start taking camps or doing other stuff instead of finishing the game.
You asked for ranged assassins, but keep talking about The Butcher and Murky, who are both melee assassins. Do you mean assassins in general? If so, I believe Alarak is probably the nastiest enemy to face if he gets stacked. If he goes E build, he plays like a ranged assassin, and his damage numbers can get crazy, as he doesn’t lose E stacks if he dies. If he goes Show of Force, he doesn’t stack as high, but stacks a lot faster, meaning killing him isn’t as much of a setback as you would hope.
Sylvanas is another ranged assassin where if you allow her to stack, she can pull some insane numbers, and she always has her trait to help with the push after the entire enemy team has been wiped.
I think they’re looking for a ranged assassin with a huge power spike around a certain point, like Butcher’s meat quest or Murky’s… Big Tuna Kahuna I guess because it doubles his health.
So I guess Nazeebo due to Vile Infection or Azmodan due to Pride could be what they’re looking for.
I feel that what you’re actually asking is “of the late game heroes, what is the relative order of their strength, and why?” You keep talking about scaling though, which IMO is a subset of hero strengths pertaining to quest stacks or actual damage% scaling per level. You’re gonna get two kinds of answers depending on how we read it.
About late game strength generally: Rag, for example, can be oppressive late game with double lava wave. Murky can become very tanky and has high sustained damage due to his slime talents, of which level 20 doubles their value. They are strong because of their talents, and that strength is not necessarily in raw damage for teamfights. Similarly Utility talents may not be easily quantifiable.
Numerous posts have already been made about quest stacking heroes like Nazeebo and The Butcher. The lesser known information is weird damage scaling values that are generally inaccessible to the player in game, but may be listed on separate Wiki pages. Those would be helpful to gather into an organized place.
I’m not sure you could get a consensus on relative strength of each hero at each part of the game. People place different value on lane push vs teamfight damage vs utility. I think the best you could do is group them into categories. I don’t know if it will serve the purpose you want it to as an easily referenced source for new players. That was the purpose of the role system, but it was not without it’s limitations in accurately and succinctly describing all the heroes.
A more limited scope would be easier to answer: Strongest Ranged Assassin at level 20 assuming quest completion(and however many stacks are reasonablly obtainable in that amount of time for unlimited quests).
