Pushing a button is not skill. Pushing a button constantly is not skill. Locked and loaded is basically press a button for more damage for no known logical reason.
This would be the equivalent of enter the konami code for garrosh to have double the armor, it makes no sense. Would it be skillful to enter it mid fight? Maybe, but the point is this doesn’t make any sense.
The point is that u have to pay attention to one more thing in exchange for more damage.
I want to see u “pushing that button constantly” while u are dodging and killing enemies in a tf and i dont think u get the bonus every time.
AND AGAIN: if u dont like this talent then DONT PICK IT. – u can be a good tracer player without picking this talent
It’s on u, but dont want to remove it because u dont like it. – just pick another talent
btw, about that konami code – haha, wtf – its a game, what is the base of your comparison? What 'd not make any sense? Based on what do u decide it?
This talent suits different types of people not all.
1 - it’s pretty much high risk, high reward. Miss your chance @ 50% to 1%, no reward
2 - The other two talents appeal those who want to focus on other things rather than focusing on reloading every clip.
Edit I stand corrected with the below paragraph
If you think about it, let’s say you reload every clip, you’re reloading every 50%, you’re not even using all of the clip to gain maximum dps. Even if you’re reloading every 80%, that’s reload time + 20% of the clip wasted.
Compared that to the other talents which has guaranteed damage not by timing.
I am sure some maths wizard can do the maths
IMO: Focus fire is a way better option as most tracers focus on ONE target not multiple and you’re not constantly thinking when to reload, blink, recall, focus who, blah blah
I don’t think you really understand what the talent does. L&L doesn’t require you to do extra reloads halfway through a clip. Tracer normally fires a clip, then automatically reloads. L&L simply requires you to press D during that reload time to get the dmg bonus. You still fire all the bullets you’d fire normally, the only difference is you need to press an extra button now and then.
The fact that the random button code for extra power has zero relevance to the rest of your gameplay. You don’t do anything differently, you just press a random button when it pops up and suddenly you’re dealing more damage. No other talent does this. There’s plenty of extra ‘powerup buttons’ that require attention to use, but they all require at least some active decision making on when to use it.
Not picking it doesn’t solve any of that, nor does it solve the bigger issue that using L&L makes you a strictly better Tracer, as it offers a strictly better payout than the other talents on the tier. If L&L had been on any tier it’d already be way less problematic.
My bad, thanks.
I tested tracer in training and there’s a reason why I don’t pick it, cause it’s just one button for me to remember when fighting and timing.
But I can see how this talent appeals to people.
I’ll maybe try it in QM a few times and see.
But in all honesty, with the re-work, even if this talent gets nerfed, the other two is just as good.
The faster reload one has its benefits. Because it increases reload time rather than damage it means that its damage increase scales better with attack speed. As more shots get fired per second, it also means more pulse bomb charge gets generated. This is why it has the lowest DPS boost.
For example Tracer at level 0, based on gamepedia wiki stats.
0% faster attack speed.
Standard Reload → 10 * 24 / (10 / 8 + 0.75) DPS = 120 DPS
Sleight of Hand Reload → 10 * 24 / (10 / 8 + 0.375) DPS = ~148 DPS
The increase here is 148/120 = ~1.23 or 23%. So it is already slightly better than the tooltip suggests.
25% faster attack speed (Abathur Symbiote).
Standard Reload → 10 * 24 / (10 / (8 * 1.25) + 0.75) DPS = ~137 DPS
Sleight of Hand Reload → 10 * 24 / (10 / (8 * 1.25) + 0.375) DPS = ~175 DPS
The increase here is 175/137 = ~1.27 or 27%. It has gained an extra 4% damage value just from Abathur.
75% faster attack speed (Stim Drone).
Standard Reload → 10 * 24 / (10 / (8 * 1.75) + 0.75) DPS = ~164 DPS
Sleight of Hand Reload → 10 * 24 / (10 / (8 * 1.75) + 0.375) DPS = ~220 DPS
The increase here is 220/164 = ~1.34 or 34%. It has gained an extra 11% damage value from being Stime Droned. For the duration it is now superior to Focus Fire talent since it does not need an entire magazine to hit the same target to deal bonus damage and at the same time raises Pulse Bomb charge generation from auto attacks by 34%.
If one stacked more faster attack speed bonuses, Sleight of Hand may even pass Locked and Loaded as far as damage bonus goes while not even requiring user input to proc and even raising Pulse Bomb charge generation by the same huge amount at the same time.
Locked and Loaded likely has negative interaction with other sources of increased attack damage such as Probius Pylon. Aggressive Matrix adds +35% auto attack damage which likely stacks additively with Locked and Loaded. This means that if proced she would be dealing +75% auto attack damage. With Sleight of Hand this stacks multiplicatively so it would be +23% (from above) times +35% or +66% damage, which is now only 9% lower instead of the 17% without Aggressive Matrix.
GeorgeV u still dont get it.
Its just about doing something for something u want. (-- if u want it)
U wanna get 40% damage increase from a talent?
Blizzard says: okay, but its too much to get it for free. if u want it u gonna pay the price by having one more thing u have to care about besides everything else while u are playing.
They could say: okay it gonna be only 20% and u dont have to do anything for it – like the other talents – but in this way, u can choose.
What is wrong with it?
I get that concept, I just dont think that is good design. Pressing more buttons is not a meaningful price to pay, as the Hero doesn’t lose anything to do it.
And even if you had to have L&L as a talent, at the very least it should not be on the same tier as two strictly worse rewards. Move it to 20 (maybe swap with Chrono Triggers?) and it could be a fun standalone option without making every other build strictly worse.
No, they are not, and that’s exactly the problem. They’re solid talents by themselves (and Tracer is good enough to do win with them), but they are still strictly inferior to Lock and Load when used properly. They give good aa boosts, but L&L just gives a better one. It’s not like how FF can do more than SoH but only situationally (empty full clip on 1 target), L&L is just plain better in every situation (provided you have the skill to use it).
I kinda dont know what is your problem anymore.
If L&L is a better choose then pick it and be happy.
There is alway a better pick in every hero’s talents.
If the problem is that one talent is better than the other two, we could have this conversation about any other hero in the game. Why tracer?
A lot of hero has only one talent series to pick which is the best.
Isn’t it right? U want to rework every 2nd hero in the game?
Key words “when used properly”, also it’s player dependent. Only blizz knows the success rate of statistics when a player is triggering below the 50% mark.
The other two talents are passive and requires no additional work.
If the talent is so good, then why isn’t tracer players picking it often? It has the lowest popularity rate in QM @ 19% and second most popular pick rate in storm @25%, yet the winrate is hovering on 52% for ALL talents.
If it’s so OP then players would change their play style and press that additional reload button for the reward.
If it does get nerfed, the other 2 talents are just going to be higher in pick rate, even thos the pick rate for ‘locked and loaded’ is VERY LOW.
I imagine plenty of people don’t want to play the “press D during reload” minigame, despite it objectively being the best talent on the tier, which just goes to show how stupid a talent it is.
Oh I know a TLV main who racks up kills with them grouped up. I didn’t check his build, but he just comes out of a bush and kills one of our opponents by himself. I keep wishing I never play against him.
One of the reasons I don’t always pick it. Even good players will drop it now and then. I’m more efficient when I don’t have to divide my attention.
Also, the timing changes a bit depending on your ping. So you can’t get it on muscle memory.
But the thing is that it isn’t like having an extra ability. It just asks you to press a button at the right time, so that you still have a talent the next time you attack.
You don’t always use one full magasine on every target though. It could be 1, or 1.4 or 1.8 or 2.4. And you often need to switch targets during a fight, when your Tank CC’ed someone or an enemy eats burst from your mage. Every time you don’t get every clip on one enemy, your talent disappears.
You have to attack from a closer range, and recall is now less reliable with a higher delay. Plus, because each bomb deals less damage, you have to land them consistently to have decent dps. It’s much more important than before. How does that lower the skill ceiling?
The first part is entirely right. Burst damage long ceased to be Tracer’s selling point. If you want more burst and don’t mind the momentary distraction with the reload minigame then L&L is for you. If you wish to spend APM elsewhere then you pick any of the other two talents which fits your style more. It’s a bit of a gimmick yet if it would be so superior you’d expect L&L would have considerably higher winrate in top rank than the rest.
You have always the possibility to reload manually by pressing the D button. So you can switch to the CC’ed Target and get the advantage of the talent.
Reloading takes 0.75s which is almost as long as most CCs in the game. If you reload while changing targets you absolutely will lose damage.
Same same same, pretty hecking same.
I can’t believe they kept it like that, its the least diverse tier imo.
This alone should be enough reason to get rid of it.
the Stuns are not long enough for reload, targeting new and kill
but the sleeps are way longer and sufficient for reloading, targeting new and kill.
Its really easy to maintain as much as people make it sound, press that button every 2 seconds, just literally count them.
Though the main reason is because this entire tier is just difficulty parameter and nothing else.
Replacing Locked & Loaded with a different mechanic might be interesting. Alternatively you can take out the fake “skill” and turn L&L into an active ability with built-in CDR. That’s sort how L&L is used in the big picture of things. In addition it’d give you a form of resource management which would actually make L&L plays require actual skill.
It’s a random idea tho and likely there are more elegant solutions.