@Monlyth :
Token druid only exist due to the help of a 4 mana summon 1/1 equal to cards in your hand.
But, when looking at it’s basic set, they have no way to synergize with Roar (I forgot names), unless… You really force it.
Regarding warrior, I suppose that is true, i focused too much on the weapon aspect that i forgot the hero power is basically useless in non control archetype
Well, now Token Druid only has Wispering Woods, but it used to have Living Roots, Enchanted Raven, Innervate, Keeper of the Grove, Living Mana, Mark of the Lotus, Power of the Wild, Soul of the Forest (PotW and SotF are still in Classic), and a bunch of neutral cards to work with. It was a tier-1 deck at several points in Hearthstone’s history.
My dream expansion is one that is hyperfocused on each class’s unique attributes. Each class would get spells and/or minions that generate unique class cards that can only come from playing that card. Similar to Arch Thief Rafaam or Marin’s Treasure. Those cards would reflect the strengths and weaknesses of their class.
So a few new cards for each class that discover or generate cards, all from a pool of new class cards that can only be accessed by playing these cards.
Yeah so true. I’d never thought about it that way but Warrior’s hero power is by far the worst in the game. After rotation though he’ll be one of only three classes in standard that can change his hero power, and after the Dr. Boom switch it becomes arguably the best.
EDIT: Well, one of four probably.
The Way I’d describe identity is in 4 parts: Uniques, Synergies, Strengths , Weaknesses
Druid
Unique: Ramping
Synergies: Taunts, Beasts, Treants (new)
Strengths: Strong card draw. Access to heal, taunts, and armor. Can go wide or tall fastest. Good removal of small minions.
Weaknesses: Bad removal for big minions, Lack of mana efficiency, Reliance on ramp
Hunter
Unique: Tracking
Synergies: Beasts, Deathrattle
Strengths: Built in aggression, strong midgame plays
Weaknesses: Poor board clear, No innate defensive mechanics (heal, armor, taunt, immune), Poor card draw
There is no such thing. All the more when blizz themselves go back on their words. It’s just euphemism to get planned obsolescence across and packs bought.
Yeah, that’s a good way to summarize it. Although you did forget the Choose One mechanic in Druid.
What is the “Official” Class Identity of Each Class?
Well, from what I understood:
Druid: Jack of all Trades, can Choose minions’ and spells effects.
Hunter: Beasts and going for face!
Mage: Spells, card draw, Spell Power.
Paladin: Buffing up minions. Divine Shield minions.
Priest: Gimmicks. Healing? This class is a lackluster in my opinion.
Rogue: Strong single-target removals, Combos, “sneaky” gameplay.
Shaman: Totems and RNG. Occasionally Elementals.
Warlock: Powerful minions, usually Demons, that have low cost but have other drawbacks. Such as discarding cards or taking damage to your own face.
Warrior: Weapons, Armor and Enraged minions.
Disagree on Shadow Light’s “irrelevant / low” playrate. Would you like me to record a week of HS and show you how often shadowstep coldlight is across the board?
Politely, the idea that shadow coldlight aint a thing, isn’t played often, and doesn’t warp the entire meta around it is well, just not true. Play aggro, like secret mage, kings rogue, I mean maybe razormaw is tall enough, maybe a couple other tall-fasts. Shadow Light Rogue beats…specifically which non-aggro decks? It has 3 branns, right? The game changed big time bc of that.
Shaman class identity should be about balancing overload or, in other words, the overall tempo and value of your turns.
I like the current overload shaman decks. They remind me of miracle rogue’s former iterations where you had a lot of decision making and options each turn.
Shaman’s identity shouldn’t be ‘RNG’ , like Blizzard could have new players believe based on the various evolve and ‘X to Y’ -damage cards.
Yet some of the most played decks in the format are things like BIg Priest and slow Warlock decks which love having a fairly full hand. If it really was “warping the meta” that would not be the case.
I’d prefer to wait for the next vs report (the last one had it at just over 2% rep) which paints a far more accurate picture than your personal experience, but if you really want to, be my guest. Make sure you also track Big Priest, along with Cube/Even/Reno Locks as well.
Druid: Mana Ramp (RIP), Big Minions
Hunter: Beast Synergies, Direct Damage
Warrior: Weapons, Armor gain
Warlock: Self-damage, Discard, Board clears
Priest: Class theft, Control/Healing
Rogue: Weapons, Combos
Shaman: Totems, Overload
Mage: Spells
Paladin: Buffs, Weapons, Healing
This is how I have always seen them (they kinda lost that “feeling” for me over the years tho which is pretty sad):
Mage: Spells mostly/aoes/weaker smaller minions
Warrior: Mostly minions/weapon mechanics/armor/more control (pirate warrior turned that one upside-down)
Rogue: Combo class/stealth (stealth apart from 1-2 usages never worked tho)
Hunter: Very aggressive playstyle/beast synergy/traps/bad card-draw/ no real aoes
Priest: Best Healing/Healing and “Corrupted Healing” synergy/bad aoes (until they became TOO good at aoes and now they can shuffle the whole board into your deck for 7 mana)
Paladin: Combination of Warrior and Priest/Buffs/Half aggressive, half control (this class kept the most identity imo)
Shaman: Combination of everything/Overload
Druid: Ramp/Choose one (choice really)/ no real aoe and only some very specific single-target-removal spells (this class never really worked until it worked to good suddenly getting more armor-gain than warrior which was laughable)
Warlock: High-risk-high-reward-playstyle/discard (still like the class although they kinda went overboard with lifesteal at some point - kinda happy that control warlock now works tho)
Did I say Shadow Light is > WBP / the rest of the pack? No.
Shadow Light beats all big decks.
How does big Warlock deal with a a blown up deck and lethal-fatigue?
How about WBP?
They can’t, unless teching like Hakkar and not-losing it, rando Loatheb…Rat is like…what 1/several to hit coldlight at best…disrupt warlock but then you’re playing a weak deck overall + I don’t even think disrupt (as fwiw I’ve been trying) lock can even disrupt shadow light. It has to be like T2 disrupts or gg.
I don’t understand the defense of Shadow Light.
It’s a redic-strong deck that loses hard to fast-talls, and wins big vs not-fast-talls.
I mean I’m no meta expert, but obviously having Secret Mage / Kings Rogue / others…probably razormaw tallfast hunter…beat up on Shadow Light takes it’s playrate down.
That doesn’t mean Shadow Light isn’t polarizing.
Its redic polarizing…
Like Bow, exactly what big decks, control or combo control, beat Shadow Light? Does VS actually acknowledge that?
I don’t read VS / Meta bc meta is lame, always will be, and that’s not rude to hold that op.
Does VS even mention Shadow Light? Is it even on their radar?
If it is, do they talk about what big decks beat Shadow Light?
Do big decks even beat Shadow Light?
This is like the gold question.
If they don’t with any consistency, Shadow Light warps no-doubt, right Bow?This is my train of thought. (politely)
You said that a deck which, at last count, had ~2% representation was warping the meta. Thats false given the HIGHER representation of decks it all but hard counters.
Your stated experience is heavily biased as you hate the combo, thats fine many others do as well (myself included), but trying to state its warping anything is a complete and utter lie. Its a fringe deck at best.
I don’t understand where this idea that hunter was the aggro class came from. because of its hero power? It may have been known for “me go face, turn 7 lethal” but that was back in Naxx. Aggro shaman had lethal turn 5. Pirate warrior had lethal turn 4.
But hunter is the aggro class. let me just take a look at all these aggro hunter decks that hadn’t existed for the last 4 years. Hunter is a midrange class with a very weak identity that’s fluid and changes with each expansion. it’s core set is basic and offers no clear picture of what hunter is supposed to be outside of very mild beast synergy. Until witchwood hunter has been play on curve and push for lethal after your board is cleared and you have no hand. That’s not an identity. Every class can do that. Every class can play some form of budget midrange with direct damage(spell, charge minion or weapon) to push for lethal, they don’t have to because they have some form of identity. Deathrattle synergy is not hunter’s identity. Both deathrattle cards are rotating out. Spell hunter is not its identity. it’s core set is rotating as well. Direct damage hardly hunter’s identity either. mage has more direct damage than hunter with fireball, frostbolt, arcane missile & pyroblast. hunter has it’s hero power arcane shot and kill command.
Hunter: No identity / weak card draw / no board clears.
Honestly we’re gonna have to wait till April before we know what each class’s identity will be because they’re all losing most of what makes them what they are now. From what we can see in Raven plus Classic and Basic these are the synergies that need support:
Druid: big beasts, big hand, hero power, treants (Big beast and maybe even treant could be surprisingly good since Druid already has a lot of these cards that have some synergy but weren’t powerful enough in the Mammoth meta and still need an extra nudge from a good legendary or something.)
Rogue: pirates, deathrattle, thief, shark (Also ready to pop because they have so many of these cards already. Looking really strong actually.)
Shaman: small spells, elementals, overload, ??? (Take your pick from the box of broken toys. However, if Team 5 focuses these next cards on support instead of yet another new direction, Shaman will have at least one good deck. In that case it would probably be a fun spell fiesta deck.)
Mage: elementals, big hand, hero power, ??? (Another box of broken toys, but, like with Shaman, if the next batch of Mage cards supports Raven cards instead of experimenting, Mage will have at least one good deck.)
Priest: I have no idea. Priest’s Raven cards are a seemingly useless mishmash of deathrattle, heal, buff, spells, spirit of the dead…madness. It’s looking like Priest is going to surrender to madness and be 100% trash meme for a while.
Warlock: demons, discard, hand buff, self-damage (Raven cards kept with original Warlock themes, with hand buff being the new addition. Hopefully the next batch will focus on supporting these schemes.)
Warrior: rush, mechs, damaged minions, dragons (Warrior should end up with a good rush deck. Mechs and dragons need more support to be good. Hopefully Warrior, Hunter and Paladin will all get mech support. It would be particularly helpful to Warrior since magnetic and Dr. Boom’s battlecry work well with a rush package.)
Hunter: beasts, mechs, Zul’jin (Hunter will still have plenty of beast synergies and that’s basically it. There’s some mech stuff that could work with support and Zul’jins always a buildaround.)
Paladin: minion buffs, Thekal/heal, mechs (Paladin’s buff package should be strong. He already has a lot of good tools. Face healing has some strong tools too but seems to rely too much on drawing Thekal currently. Both could be good with support, and the buff and heal cards can work together in a deck I think. Lots of potential with upcoming lower power levels. Paladin could really benefit from some mech support as well because he has mech cards that are potentially very good. Magnetic mechs can also work well with a buff scheme I think.)
After looking over all the Raven, Classic, and Basic cards for each class I’m kind of blown away. I knew the power levels would be lower, but they won’t just be lower…the power level is going to plummet. At first I think it’ll feel like playing with pellet guns compared to the weapons we’ve been using. Of course a lot depends on the new expansion. It’s gonna need to have good cards that will see play and that will help to bring the scattered mix of cards that each class has into decks that have great synergies. Otherwise the whole game is gonna feel like Arena.
It’s gonna be something the likes of which we’ve never seen. It’ll be like creating a new world after an apocalypse. It’ll be weird and kinda sad but it’ll also be a fresh start, and most of us are ready for that.
I also think there’s no way of trying to figure out what are the “identities” right now. Clearly classic cards are not good enough to determine what it is.
I guess the identity of a class is what the new expansion cards tell you to play with.
It probably would be a good thing if the new expansion’s cards are very impactful and pull everything together, but they’ll be less than 1/5 of Standard cards and recent expansions have had a lot of meme/niche cards so we’ll see.
well we disagree then about warps.
playrate doesn’t mean warp.
im not someone that vs repots and goes “ya 2 percent deck’s trash non-warp”
what if…people play certain deck types…that don’t get blown up by shadow light 2 card deck-core.
I don’t at all agree with playrate meaning deck’s warpability.
plus, the gold question?
What big decks beat shadow light 2-card rogue?
I’d love to call VS and ask them this.
Talk about exactly that.
Why?
B-decks don’t beat shadowstep light.
Does that mean warp?
Yes, exactly.
Now Bow even tho we argue / disagree and probs forevs will on shadow light being a problem, or just some not-relevant 2 percenter…
im trying to offer a compromise.
obvi im not much for nerfs, but shadow light is too-op and bc of how much it warps the game that that playrate may not reflect…
If shadow light, somehow someway, was more-difficult than a 2-card core.
If that shadow light took 3 cards? Game changer. Deck’s fair.
If that shadow light took more-mana? Game changer, deck’s a little fair but still OP.
You don’t want your opponent drawing 2 cards, and gg that’s it game’s done.
That’s exactly how shadow light works. if that core could be…expanded by a card…to up its difficulty in pulling off that deck-blowup…then its fair.
Its just crazy to not see VS type up
“Shadowstep your Coldlight Rogue - here’s what big decks beat it and how”
They don’t, because big decks don’t beat it, if I am inccorect here, please, explain how big decks beat fatigue lethal early.